Star Wars TFA Discussion <Spoilers>

[SOJA]

I loved the movie, but cmon Leia's son murdered her lover and best friend and she acted like she had misplaced her keys 

[cookinwithgas]

I think she knew -  that he knew - that he had come around to trying again to save his son and that he would either do it, or die trying, it was almost inevitable. She is just sad and defeated - hopefully later in the movies she will get her moxie back, but you have to give the characters something to rise up against. I felt way worse for Chewie.

Interesting thing is that in the EU books, it's Chewie that gets killed off in the first book or the New Jedi Order series. Han then disappears for a few books out drinking and being depressed.

[zacka77ack]

1 hour ago, SOJA said:

I loved the movie, but cmon Leia's son murdered her lover and best friend and she acted like she had misplaced her keys 

Well Carrie Fisher's face is full of silicon so it's not like she can show the needed emotions.

[Moorgan]

I saw it this weekend and liked it. I didn't love it but I'm going to see it again this weekend and may come away with a different perspective. As for the Star Killer...I loved the idea that it was so massive it had significant gravity itself and thus had an atmosphere, etc. At least that was my take on it. But how exactly did it suck in the star's energy? That alone seems like a better weapon than destroying 5 planets. You destroy the system's star and everything in that system dies. But it's all good.

I liked how Ren was petulant and emotional but not whiny like Anakin. I understand that he was pretty injured by the blaster shot but I still don't think the fight between he and Finn should've lasted for more than 5 seconds and result in anything other than Finn's death or dismemberment. I understand Rey lasting longer and even winning but not Finn. Also hated the name Snoke. Seemed like a Harry Potter name and those names are ridiculously childlike.

I thought Harrison Ford was fantastic and seemed to fit right back into his role. Great job. Would've liked to have seen more from the silver stormtrooper but oh well. All in all I enjoyed it and want to see it again to get a better sense of it...since my nerdgasm likely clouded a lot of what I saw.

[CarolinaNCSU]

Pretty good overall to me.

 

Just one point that's already been hit on for me though...I HATE Adam Driver as Kylo Ren.  I just can't buy the scrawny hipster from "Girls" as the new badass on the block. 

 

Edit...how could I forget my hatred of Carrie Fisher.  Why couldn't it have been her instead of Han? :(

[PhillyB]

i need to watch it a second time to really give it a proper critique, but my immediate impressions:

1) character development as a whole was undervalued in this production. kylo needed a LOT more development. they did a nice job pacing his character while he had the mask on but as soon as it came off he just came unglued and they never really did a proper job of building up exactly why. it led to some weird continuity like him being this complete masked badass who can stop blasts midair but then he can get held off by a very un-jedi finn and get his ass kicked by ray when she's just figuring out how to do basic jedi poo.

2) they relied way too much on throwbacks and easter eggs. yeah it was cool seeing finn toss the training droid back in the bin, and the chess board pop up, but they say nostalgia is the first sign of death and i think they crippled themselves here. way too much re-use. 

3) the new droid was heavily anthropomorphized to the point of being annoying. R2D2 was the perfect mixture of human quirk and circuits, but from early on they overplayed the cute-pitched squeals and over-exaggerated head movements. not necessary.

4) why the fug did the light saber just choose ray? don't jedis build their own light sabers? isn't that a thing? why did it just jump into her hands like WHOOOOAAAA and zap her some sweet flashbacks? that's a great plot point to make the connection to jakku and her parents but it's at odds with the universe they've built so far imo. also why the fug was that thing just hanging out in a treasure chest around an unguarded corner in a bar full of dumbass drunks and first order moles? could they have at last put a door in that hallway?

5) i need to watch it again before saying this with real conviction, but i thought the build-up to the climax (blowing up the planet) was done very, very poorly. in all six of the existing movies the directors have done an amazing job of cycling between different action scenes in a very clear, conscious ascent towards the finale. nothing is left to chance, there are no ambiguities. you know what's at stake, you know what has to happen, and then in one moment it's there. it's brilliant. even phantom menace did this exceptionally well.

but this one... man, it was just muddled. i think maybe it's cause they didn't go into enough detail about the universe 20 years in the future, or however far it was. it was like he lets blow up these planets KABLOOIE without much background other than some exposition by the nazi-looking general dude (who actually needed more screen time.) and then when they go to take down the reactor it's like you know what they're doing but it's fuzzy and there's no clear path and you don't know exactly what needs to be taken out, but po just rolls in and unloads on whatever the hell's in front of them without anyone sitting there going HIT THE REACTOR LUKE so you know what's at stake, and then they're flying off and oh hey by the way planet explodes *KABLOOIE* yay mission accomplished! let's get awkward hugs from carrie fischer now!

but again i need to re-watch it before putting real emphasis on that.

other than those things, it was great cinematography, fun world immersion, decent battle scenes, mostly convincing characters, heart-welling resurrection of characters, imaginative scapes, particularly on jakku, expansive battle scenes that reminded me more of 300 than star wars but still kept the latter's spirit, nice infusion of humor, great chemistry with the entire cast, really, and arguably the most natural dialogue of any of the star wars films to date.

right now a tentative 8/10, although i enjoyed it at 10/10 

[Zaximus]

I think this movie should have been 3 hours, or even a little longer, to flesh out the story and the new people more.  Some movies shouldn't be long, but this is Star Wars, and a 3-hour epic was needed, especially this one.  

[CarolinaCoolin]

I liked Ren. Don't understand the hate he is getting for being on a show no one really watches anyway. 

 

I don't think the saber duels at the end were unbelievable. Finn still ends up losing, it's not like he had Ren on the ropes, Ren as stated by Snoke hasn't finished his training, and Rey as stated by Ren is very strong in the force but is unlearned in it. That's obviously because we know the force is strong in the skywalker Family. They both still have a lot of training to do. Neither are at their full potential during that fight.

 

 

[Zaximus]

Ren being lame at the end is really the least of my issues with the film.  The lack of character development, the rehash of the same exact lot, and the crutch of nostalgia are my issues.  If the film was long like I said, they could have front ended the nostalgia and at least developed some of the new characters, because I really like Pope (and the actor is great) and the other new people and would like to know a bit more.  

I actually expected Luke would be right at the end, because we knew he was in exile before the movie came out.

[nickzz]

it was very meh.

kylo ren is possibly the dumbest villain i've seen in a movie. i just couldn't take his character seriously. he looks hilarious, he was terrible at conveying whatever emotion he was trying to convey, and he SOUNDS fuging RIDICULOUS. i couldn't contain my laughter whenever he spoke.

the final fight between rey and kylo ren was weak. i thought anakin vs obi wan in episode 3 was 10x more exciting.

the completely untrained jedi girl that has never touched a lightsaber before just destroys a trained sith. in the past movies, all the newbies get their asses kicked: luke vs vader 1.0, anakin vs dooku 1.0, and anakin vs obi-wan. those are all trained jedi getting their asses kicked.

also too many attempts at comedy in the movie. only a couple of the jokes didn't seem completely forced.

[Lemory]

I really like the Kylo Ren character. Adam Driver acted the poo out of this role. Very refreshing to see that after 2 movies of Hayden Christensen . 

[cookinwithgas]

Saw it for the third time today. It keeps getting clearer and more interesting now that the "holy crap it's Star Wars!" feels have receded. Love listening for the laughs from the audience, mostly involving Chewbacca.

[Woodie]

I think there are a lot of people overthinking this movie.  First of all, I've gotten the impression from interview I have seen that the similarities to the original were intentional.  After the prequels veered so far off course from what Star Wars is, they had to reign it back in and bring it to a familiar and comfortable place.  I also think people forget that this is an introductory movie.  It was designed to introduce the new characters, re-introduce the old familiar ones, and set the stage for the rest of the series.  But in order to do that, they had to get people back to the place they were after ROTJ.  So, for those complaining, blame George Lucas, he's the one that altered the SW universe so bad that it had to be readjusted in order to get it back on track.

Also, you can't compare Kylo Ren to Darth Vader, or any fully developed minion of the dark side.  He is intentionally made to have moments of weakness.  He's still a kid (relatively speaking) and doesn't have full control of his emotions or the force yet...and he is only partially trained.  Someone mentioned how he was different with and without the mask, and felt it should have been explained better.  But you have to remember that this is not a stand alone movie, we've barely learned anything about him or his motivations.  It's something they are sure to include as plot points in the upcoming films.  But in general, Ren with the mask represented the badass master he will eventually be, but no mask represents the insecure undisciplined kid that is trying desperately to live up to the legacy of his grandfather.  This is one issue that requires some patience, and all will be revealed.

 As for the final fight between Rey & Finn and Kylo Ren, it made perfect sense.  Finn, overall, was not doing very well and Ren clearly was in total control.  All Finn was doing was launching a mindless and unskilled attack that didn't pose much of a threat, yet Ren had to be careful since it was so unpredictable.  But once he figured it out, he destroyed Finn.  And if you remember, earlier in the movie they showed that Rey was a badass with her staff, and as such, would logically have some ability pick up a new weapon and at least be a basic threat.  But even so, she was losing and Ren could have killed her, but instead tried to turn her. 

Lastly, many of the questions or issues that people want answered will be answered in the following films.  TFA only set the stage, the next movies will start fleshing it out.  In this case, patience is the magic word.

 

[Woodie]

Oh, about Rey using the force on the storm trooper and withstanding Kylo Ren, she is naturally very strong in the force, she is just untrained in how to use it.  And until Ren tried using it on her to learn about the map, I don't think she even knew she had it in her to use it.  But Ren's attempt to breakthrough her mind actually backfired and awoke her innate abilities.  And since his training is incomplete, he likely hasn't developed the skills and nuances and was unprepared to overcome her level of resistance.  Also, while Rey may have been untrained in using the force, I'm sure she at least knew about it.  So with the storm trooper, she knew that she could manipulate him with her newfound ability...she just needed to figure out how.  And that's why you saw her struggle at first, but gain control after a few attempts.