Next Gen Stats - Cam is the most aggressive QB in the NFL

[gmonjimbo]

7 minutes ago, outlaw4 said:

 I do think improving protection will mitigate the issue as it makes more targets available. 

This. That is a  big part of the problem there are not enough targets for Cam to throw to because of max protect. We don't spread teams out and force their LBs and S to cover in space.

[AU-panther]

Interesting article.

It kinda confirms somthing I have been thinking in that the "large catch radius" is some huge benefit for a passer that sometimes has accuracy problems is a bit of a myth.

If a player depends on positioning and his size to catch a football it's almost more imperative to be really accurate in throwing to him.

For example, if KB gets a defender behind him the throw needs to go to the correct side of him to not allow the defender to get a hand in front him.

A big receiver might have a larger catch radius but more of that catch radius can be covered by the defender so the net effect is a more accurate pass is needed.

It is one reason why I have been pushing Ross somewhat in the draft.  While 8 might be too high for him, if we could trade down he might really help the team.  This is also why Mike Williams makes me a bit nervous.  Seems to be another receiver that uses size and body control to catch a lot of his passes.

 

[Snake]

It's the scheme not the team. Shula really does expect Cam to be superman. Change the scheme give Newton protection and Funchess will be a pro bowl player. If you don't change you better get Djax to come help or else. 

[beastson]

41 minutes ago, Snake said:

It's the scheme not the team. Shula really does expect Cam to be superman. Change the scheme give Newton protection and Funchess will be a pro bowl player. If you don't change you better get Djax to come help or else. 

Change the scheme or find better players to the fit the scheme. You want to air 10+ down the field, make sure your receivers have quickness and speed. Jam KB and Funchess at the line and we're done

[tiger7_88]

8 hours ago, Jangler said:

We need speed. 

No downers, joy juice, mother's little helpers, or pink ladies?

[Growl]

we don't need speed so much as we need precision. We need a guy who can consistently be where he is supposed to be with the defender running the opposite direction, confused.

As the article pointed out, we said to ourselves that Cam may not have Brady's accuracy so we drafted guys with big windows. 

Guys with big catch radius' (radii?) don't tend to separate very well though and that's more important than a big catch radius. Kelvin would completely thrive in a 1B role where he could, maybe 1 on 1, simply outmuscle smaller defenders as the 2nd read down the field. As it stands though you're asking him to play out of his natural skillset by being the quickly targeted 1A, either down the field (which entails quickness) or on quick timing passes (which entail precision)

 

Maybe you mull over mike Williams if you think he can be that guy (and if you've had a productive free agency period) but as it stands the kind of talent we've acquired stands in total contrast to the kind of offense we like to run.

[Icege]

Benjamin and Funchess are great redzone targets. Unfortunately, the only way this team gets into the redzone is if the defense puts them there.

Ginn does well in this offense because his speed creates separation. An explosive player in the mold of Agent 89/AB/etc where speed AND agility help them get open will greatly assist this offense between the 20s imo.

[KB_fan]

These are really interesting stats.  Thanks for posting them @GoobyPls  It definitely suggests to me that we do need a shifty WR who can get separation and we need to keep Ted Ginn around until any new shifty / speedy receivers are well established with Cam.

[CRA]

42 minutes ago, Growl said:

we don't need speed so much as we need precision. We need a guy who can consistently be where he is supposed to be with the defender running the opposite direction, confused.

As the article pointed out, we said to ourselves that Cam may not have Brady's accuracy so we drafted guys with big windows. 

Guys with big catch radius' (radii?) don't tend to separate very well though and that's more important than a big catch radius. Kelvin would completely thrive in a 1B role where he could, maybe 1 on 1, simply outmuscle smaller defenders as the 2nd read down the field. As it stands though you're asking him to play out of his natural skillset by being the quickly targeted 1A, either down the field (which entails quickness) or on quick timing passes (which entail precision)

 

Maybe you mull over mike Williams if you think he can be that guy (and if you've had a productive free agency period) but as it stands the kind of talent we've acquired stands in total contrast to the kind of offense we like to run.

the overcompensation of big men basically is anti productive.

Cam tends to be a little in accurate....so let's give him a bunch of really big WRs.....really big WRs that actually can't get separation....thus requiring Cam to make throws into some pretty tight windows because defenders literally live on our WRs hip.

The knock on Cam is he is in accurate...yet we have put him in a scenario where "how did Newton get a ball into that tiny of a window" is a pretty common phrase announcers use but Cam has no choice.

[Growl]

 

To put it concisely

we observed that Cam wasn't the most accurate QB to ever play the game 

So we attained large WRs in the hopes of compensating for that with their catch radius, not realizing that the natural consequence of that was asking the QB to throw in even smaller windows, thus magnifying the initial "problem."

 

that is remarkably, remarkably busch league.

[iamhubby1]

6 hours ago, Cuttinedge said:

First off don't the route running fall on our WR coach who everyone thinks is the greatest ever. ?

Secondly that wasn't GInn on the sloppy double move   is was the great golden boy Bersin.  And ain't that suppose to be his specialty "route running"  

It's time to do away with Bersin and Brown both are SOFT and easily knocked off their route.  We need to get some speed in the slot and outside. There is a reason Ginn is open the most of this group wonder why??? KB and Funch wear a CB like a high dollar Armani suit 

 

All in all, I agree with everything you say, and Bersin was who I thought, I just couldn't remember. So thanks for that.

 

I will add that route running is both a Coach, and a Player responsibility. Because of the CBA, coaches don't really get a whole lot of time with players. Players spend more time with other players, than coaches.

 

Which is why I believe we need that Vet WR who can teach. Someone to supplement the coaching these guys are not getting.

[*FreeFua*]

Guys like Philly and Ginn have no bend and can't get out of breaks fast. Ginn is capable of running a slant and a go, THATS IT. Philly is open when Philly sits in open spots in the zone. Philly is choppy as hell and isn't going to be winning many 1 on 1's in man. 

For the billionth time there is a difference between fast and quick. We don't just need speed guys we need guys capable of running the entire route tree or even close to the entire route tree.

Damiere Byrd is smooth as hell. I'm guessing all he was used of running at SC was the go and he's taking these first 2 years to get the route tree down. Byrd has the athletic ability to run any route it's just a matter of perfecting it. 

I hated Cotchery as much as the next man but not having a slot receiver that Cam could turn to when blitz is what really killed this offense. It should concern you that Gettleman was unable to recognize the need for a slot receiver coming into this season. I have begged for Boldin for the past 2-3 years, this sh*t really isn't that difficult. Boldin had 67 rec / 584 yds / 8 td's this year AND was signed for peanuts.  He'd once again be an awesome get if he doesn't hang them up. 

Boldin, Woods or Jackson would be nice 

[iamhubby1]

2 hours ago, beastson said:

Change the scheme or find better players to the fit the scheme. You want to air 10+ down the field, make sure your receivers have quickness and speed. Jam KB and Funchess at the line and we're done

 

Well, to be honest. Finding WRs that can beat the jam, will pretty much get your Offense off and running. If you are playing against press coverage. What happens if the Defense plays off in zone coverage?

 

The truth is, you need WRs who can move a CB with body language. Shake of the shoulders, a bob of the head, or wiggle the hips are all part of the WRs arsenal. NFL CBs are good, you need more than speed to get separation.

 

Another nasty truth is that catch radius is Yuge. That last catch by KB where he wound up punishing Grimes is a perfect example. That is not a catch with Teddy, Philly, or most of your smallish speed guys.

 

There are a lot of moving parts to being a good WR. Quickness, and speed are just components in a larger picture.

[Snake]

20 hours ago, beastson said:

Change the scheme or find better players to the fit the scheme. You want to air 10+ down the field, make sure your receivers have quickness and speed. Jam KB and Funchess at the line and we're done

It's why the players fit the EP more than the Coryell. We need a player like Vincent Jackson or Plaxico Burris to complement our possession WRs. Even a player like DJax or Mike Williams in the draft would be good.