Veterans beware

[MadHatter]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

What purpose? Do you think that somehow he makes us a playoff team? Is he truly worth paying $13M to this year? At the end of the day, he hits our cap for an extra $13M if he’s on the team this year.

His cap hit is just over $19m....the dead cap hit if we cut now him is $17m.  So he costs us an additional $2m to keep him.  Only a complete idiot would cut him now.

[kungfoodude]

5 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Short isn't really a good example. If we cut him we incur 17 million in dead cap space which is only 2 million less than keeping him. If you were going to cut him next year will be the best time when we won't have almost 50 million of dead cap space like we do already 

Well, we would save a lot in "real cash" though. I 100% agree that for the purposes of cap space it wouldn't make much sense. It would make a lot of sense for "saving money" though. 

[panthers55]

13 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Well, we would save a lot in "real cash" though. I 100% agree that for the purposes of cap space it wouldn't make much sense. It would make a lot of sense for "saving money" though. 

Tepper is a billionaire. He doesn't need to save money. He does need to fit everything under the salary cap though.

[electro's horse]

19 hours ago, Mister said:

On what analytics or stats state we should cut short? None !!  You would make a good bills fan my friend with your ignorance 

did anyone else read this in like an 18th century new england accent

[kungfoodude]

42 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Tepper is a billionaire. He doesn't need to save money. He does need to fit everything under the salary cap though.

That's my personal view of it. TBD if he agrees. A lot of those billionaires are pretty miserly. 

[Khyber53]

On 5/23/2020 at 12:47 AM, pantherclaw said:

We need short.

You guys are hating. 

We do need Short, but it has been years since we've seen KK in a dominant, or even disruptive role on defense. Since the big contract and sending Star into the Great White North, KK has underperformed. Last year was an injury season for him, but do you think he'd have been putting forth much effort in those late season games had he remained healthy.

We do need Short, it's just we haven't gotten what we need from him for the past few years. He'll be playing for his next contract this time around, so maybe the motivation will be there.

[stbugs]

15 hours ago, MadHatter said:

His cap hit is just over $19m....the dead cap hit if we cut now him is $17m.  So he costs us an additional $2m to keep him.  Only a complete idiot would cut him now.

Lol. Only a complete idiot doesn’t get the salary cap. I can’t believe people continue to post incorrectly.

Short has $17M in dead cap. That’s the only thing you got right. Let me explain that you don’t reduce that at all. Only a complete idiot would think that.

If he plays with us this year, that dead cap is $6M in 2020 and $11M in 2021. If he plays with us this year we also pay $13M in NEW salary. So, to summarize, we lose $30M in cap space this year and next to keep a mediocre DT.

If we cut him now we get hit with the $17M in dead cap this year (not going to do the post June 1st cut as we don’t need that). We only lose $17M in cap space so we save $2M this year and $11M this year.

Only a complete idiot thinks cutting him only saves us $2M. That same idiot would probably be pissed that we had $11M in 2021 dead cap for Short.

I will reiterate this for anyone else that doesn’t get it. Dead cap comes from bonuses already paid that are spread over the life of the contract or years a player plays if released. You CANNOT reduce dead cap by paying the player another year or two of salary. All you are doing is pushing it out. It has to hit at some point and with rollover you absolutely save space to use later. Without rollover this is a different discussion and all that matters is if Tepper wants to write another $13M check to Short. 

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Tepper is a billionaire. He doesn't need to save money. He does need to fit everything under the salary cap though.

See my post. It’s not just the cash savings. You are ignoring the ability to rollover the $13M you save this year from new salary. Since we are rebuilding, I’d rather have that $13M in 2021 to pay Moton or Moore or save for 2022/2023 when a Matthieu or Clark etc. could help when we are ready to make a run. 

[kungfoodude]

19 minutes ago, stbugs said:

See my post. It’s not just the cash savings. You are ignoring the ability to rollover the $13M you save this year from new salary. Since we are rebuilding, I’d rather have that $13M in 2021 to pay Moton or Moore or save for 2022/2023 when a Matthieu or Clark etc. could help when we are ready to make a run. 

We don't seem to care much about rolling over cap money for whatever reason.

[MadHatter]

23 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Lol. Only a complete idiot doesn’t get the salary cap. I can’t believe people continue to post incorrectly.

Short has $17M in dead cap. That’s the only thing you got right. Let me explain that you don’t reduce that at all. Only a complete idiot would think that.

If he plays with us this year, that dead cap is $6M in 2020 and $11M in 2021. If he plays with us this year we also pay $13M in NEW salary. So, to summarize, we lose $30M in cap space this year and next to keep a mediocre DT.

If we cut him now we get hit with the $17M in dead cap this year (not going to do the post June 1st cut as we don’t need that). We only lose $17M in cap space so we save $2M this year and $11M this year.

Only a complete idiot thinks cutting him only saves us $2M. That same idiot would probably be pissed that we had $11M in 2021 dead cap for Short.

I will reiterate this for anyone else that doesn’t get it. Dead cap comes from bonuses already paid that are spread over the life of the contract or years a player plays if released. You CANNOT reduce dead cap by paying the player another year or two of salary. All you are doing is pushing it out. It has to hit at some point and with rollover you absolutely save space to use later. Without rollover this is a different discussion and all that matters is if Tepper wants to write another $13M check to Short. 

Completely incorrect.  If we pay him he counts 19m towards the 2020 cap.  If we cut him he counts 17m towards the 2020 cap.

[mc52beast]

Gotta have some kind of veteran leadership on the team, don’t really see us doing much here 

[45catfan]

12 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

Gotta have some kind of veteran leadership on the team, don’t really see us doing much here 

Some folks want an all-out rebuild which means, no veterans (aside from cheap scrubs to fill out the roster) and either cut or trade what decently talented vets we have left.  I even remember some crazy notion months about blowing the whole thing up and trading CMC before he got extended.

The idea of competing while rebuilding is 100% incompatible to some folks.  It's either you compete and not rebuild or rebuild and not compete.   The Panthers front office thinks both can occur simultaneously.  I guess we will see.

[Snake]

On 5/23/2020 at 11:55 AM, Mr. Scot said:

If this happens, I'd be real interested to see how it plays out in Washington.

You know how Rivera wants all of his veterans to have Hollywood endings.

I never underestimate Rivera's willingness to sacrifice others to save his own hide. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

Marty Hurney, undefeated never lost