Derrick Brown, massive top-10 bust

[Panthercougar68]

16 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Opinionated and bias are 2 different words.   Also why would PFF be biased against the panthers as you are suggesting and furthermore how they do the grades are on the freaking website.

Easy killer at no point have I dropped the bias word which you keep harping on. That's why I used opinionated.

My issue is what do graders know when watching? What if any player did his assignment or what Snow asked him to do and its of the opinion of the grader that he didnt? Little things like that. Not just for the Panthers but for all 31 other teams.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, Panthercougar68 said:

Easy killer at no point have I dropped the bias word which you keep harping on. That's why I used opinionated.

My issue is what do graders know when watching? What if any player did his assignment or what Snow asked him to do and its of the opinion of the grader that he didnt? Little things like that. Not just for the Panthers but for all 31 other teams.

My bad that was Goob.  I didnt pay attention to who I was responding to.  Sorry

[AU-panther]

9 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

How does PFF take into consideration double teams? If Brown is our DT and he is taking a double team without losing his position, shouldn’t that count as positive points? I’m assuming it doesn’t count for anything and his rookie penalties are negative points. If he can hold our line despite double teams I will call it a win. Our rush defense already looks better than last year and that’s without Luke. 

I'm sure it takes into account double teams.  Also I would think the penalties are counted heavily negatively.

 

15 hours ago, panthers55 said:

This is exactly what I was saying in the other PFF thread. If our coaches tell him they want to play 2 gap football and stop the run first and then rush the passer he won't get a bunch of sacks. It won't be his ability it will be the role he assumes. If he takes on double teams and stays stout he is doing his job occupying 2 blockers so other guys who are singled can make the plays.  His performance needs to evaluated based on his job in the defense. 

PFF is an "eye test" grading system, its taking into account situations like that.  His grade isn't based on just sacks or tackles.

Speaking of double teams, has anyone actually took time to watch coach's tape and to focus on him on every play, not watch the QB, not watch the ball, but just focus on Brown?  

This idea of him getting constantly double teamed I'm afraid is a bit of wishful thinking around here.  Its like one person makes an ill informed comment and all of the sheep take it as gospel.

He himself has talked about how bad he has played, if he was fighting all of these double teams and doing his job I doubt he would be saying that.

 

[blackcat]

This thread is a Top 10 Bust.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I'm sure it takes into account double teams.  Also I would think the penalties are counted heavily negatively.

 

PFF is an "eye test" grading system, its taking into account situations like that.  His grade isn't based on just sacks or tackles.

Speaking of double teams, has anyone actually took time to watch coach's tape and to focus on him on every play, not watch the QB, not watch the ball, but just focus on Brown?  

This idea of him getting constantly double teamed I'm afraid is a bit of wishful thinking around here.  Its like one person makes an ill informed comment and all of the sheep take it as gospel.

He himself has talked about how bad he has played, if he was fighting all of these double teams and doing his job I doubt he would be saying that.

 

PFF does explain their grading system fairly well on their website. They just don't give the criteria they have in their manual for grading each position. It's not fantastically complex. 

https://www.pff.com/grades

[panthers55]

9 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I'm sure it takes into account double teams.  Also I would think the penalties are counted heavily negatively.

 

PFF is an "eye test" grading system, its taking into account situations like that.  His grade isn't based on just sacks or tackles.

Speaking of double teams, has anyone actually took time to watch coach's tape and to focus on him on every play, not watch the QB, not watch the ball, but just focus on Brown?  

This idea of him getting constantly double teamed I'm afraid is a bit of wishful thinking around here.  Its like one person makes an ill informed comment and all of the sheep take it as gospel.

He himself has talked about how bad he has played, if he was fighting all of these double teams and doing his job I doubt he would be saying that.

 

If you read my posts you would know I have said rookies get abused while learning better technique which is why I like them working into the rotation instead of starting right away. But I would argue that he isn't playing poorly so.much as he is playing as a rookie usually does especially with a abbreviated off season and no preseason. I agree that PFF is an eye test analysis which has proven consistently when used for eye witness testimony to be the most trusted but  the least reliable and accurate. So while they take everything into account it is rather subjective. As for his self analysis he has never had folks better than him routinely beating him so yeah he feels he playing bad but that will change as his technique improves.

[AU-panther]

7 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

If you read my posts you would know I have said rookies get abused while learning better technique which is why I like them working into the rotation instead of starting right away. But I would argue that he isn't playing poorly so.much as he is playing as a rookie usually does especially with a abbreviated off season and no preseason. I agree that PFF is an eye test analysis which has proven consistently when used for eye witness testimony to be the most trusted but  the least reliable and accurate. So while they take everything into account it is rather subjective. As for his self analysis he has never had folks better than him routinely beating him so yeah he feels he playing bad but that will change as his technique improves.

I did read your post, and you implied that his lack of sacks was probably hurting his PFF grade and that maybe he was dong his job occupying double teams.

My point is the lack of sacks alone won't ruin a PFF grade like that and if was really doing his job or playing the role they ask , as you implied, his grade wouldn't be that bad.

Also playing poorly is playing poorly, the fact he is a rookie, which hardly no offseason I'm sure is contributing to that, but it doesn't change the fact he is playing poorly.

[GoobyPls]

3 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Bias?  Y'all keep using that word..... 

Cause it’s true. In 2018 when Cam was having a good season they were calling him a system QB, why is that? Cause they have a bias against Cam.

 

Keep in mind we just played the Bucs and apparently Brady has a great game and the Bucs WR dropped 7 passes, which is a flat out lie, why cause they have always been bias towards Brady.

 

They hate certain player from the get go no matter what, Josh Allen is another one, they have Darnold graded higher than Allen this past Sunday lol.

 

Do people even know that guys who work at pff were formers internet sports bloggers mainly for bleacher report, these guys are not football coaches or scouts

[theinstrumental]

PFF also found that interior defensive linemen have the steepest learning curve of any position. I'll worry if he's still bad next year.

[AU-panther]

59 minutes ago, GoobyPls said:

Cause it’s true. In 2018 when Cam was having a good season they were calling him a system QB, why is that? Cause they have a bias against Cam.

 

Keep in mind we just played the Bucs and apparently Brady has a great game and the Bucs WR dropped 7 passes, which is a flat out lie, why cause they have always been bias towards Brady.

 

They hate certain player from the get go no matter what, Josh Allen is another one, they have Darnold graded higher than Allen this past Sunday lol.

 

Do people even know that guys who work at pff were formers internet sports bloggers mainly for bleacher report, these guys are not football coaches or scouts

who has bias? PFF

HIs 2018 PFF grades actually wasn't that bad

The insecurity of Panther fans, especially Cam fans is startling.

You should check his grade this year, so much for bias.

Also they actually went out of their way to explain the Josh Allen grade to people who don't understand.  

[Jared Patterson]

22 minutes ago, theinstrumental said:

PFF also found that interior defensive linemen have the steepest learning curve of any position. I'll worry if he's still bad next year.

Where did you see this? I would be interested in reading the article. Thanks!

[theinstrumental]

14 minutes ago, Jared Patterson said:

Where did you see this? I would be interested in reading the article. Thanks!

Here (premium though): https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-investigating-learning-curves-from-college-football-to-the-nfl

[Soul Rebel]

20 hours ago, PhillyB said:

brand new defense, brand new scheme, marginal DEs, bad LBers behind him, rotation at NT, low sample size, rookie, no preseason 

derp

Rather than post my thoughts, Philly sums it up perfectly. 

 

[GoobyPls]

54 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

who has bias? PFF

HIs 2018 PFF grades actually wasn't that bad

The insecurity of Panther fans, especially Cam fans is startling.

You should check his grade this year, so much for bias.

Also they actually went out of their way to explain the Josh Allen grade to people who don't understand.  

Actually they continually mentioned how he was underperforming that season.

 

They also like to pick and choose, how they are gonna grade that person. For example that Josh Allen grade they lowered his grades cause he missed a few throws vs a decent secondary, meanwhile Darnold was missing reads and throws left and right last Sunday vs an injured niners squad and they took nothing away from that, how come?

Again they have been exposed by numerous other outlets just look it up.