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Passing on a star for more draft capital

unicar15

By unicar15,
in Carolina Panthers

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Pup McBarky Proficient

Pup McBarky

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, unicar15 said:

This is exactly right. 
 

If you have a chance to draft Chase outside the top 5 and you choose to trade down you better be a magician in the 2-3 rounds and your coach better know how to coach. Or else you’re gonna look really foolish.

https://www.nfl.com/photos/worst-trades-involving-nfl-draft-picks-0ap3000000519212

See? This game goes both ways. 

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AndrewLaskoski Enthusiast

AndrewLaskoski

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39 minutes ago, Pup McBarky said:

https://www.nfl.com/photos/worst-trades-involving-nfl-draft-picks-0ap3000000519212

See? This game goes both ways. 

It absolutely does go both ways. Trading down in the 1st has its merits if the team trading down knows how to draft well. Until Fitterer proves he can draft well I’d prefer to stick at 8 and pick a blue chip talent. 

On the other hand trading down in day 2 and day 3 always has made sense to me. More darts to throw at the more flawed prospects.

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KatsAzz Grand Master

KatsAzz

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Trader be aware. Watch how often teams do the dead opposite of what they should, give away fistfuls of picks to move up and grab a single star prospect.
 
Overconfidence in their own judgment clouds their thinking, or sometimes it’s just a simple case of seeing a player “they lust after".
 
When a team packages too many picks to trade up for a single player, it hurts a team for years. It has to turn out to be a home run, and even then, you’re still robbing your team of infrastructure.
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AndrewLaskoski Enthusiast

AndrewLaskoski

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21 minutes ago, Pup McBarky said:

You missed my point. Pick #8 doesn't guarantee us a blue chip talent. It increases the odds, but definitely doesn't guarantee it.

Just because the player doesn’t work out doesn’t mean they weren’t a blue chip talent at the time they were drafted.

Life happens, injuries happens, coaching sucks, whatever it may be that makes prospects fail at the NFL does not take away the fact that they were blue chip prospects and they had less flaws than their peers while entering the NFL.

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stirs Grand Master

stirs

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Exactly no one will be available when we pick 8th. No one. All draft eligible players and all udfa will be spoken for.  We going to get Bob, the fry cook, from Dairy Queen. 

I understand Bob did well in the 3 CONE drill, so there is that

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Pup McBarky Proficient

Pup McBarky

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2 minutes ago, AndrewLaskoski said:

Just because the player doesn’t work out doesn’t mean they weren’t a blue chip talent at the time they were drafted.

Life happens, injuries happens, coaching sucks, whatever it may be that makes prospects fail at the NFL does not take away the fact that they were blue chip prospects and they had less flaws than their peers while entering the NFL.

Again, my point is, statistically, half of the first round picks are gonna fail. Every GM who picks a player rates that player as a blue-chip talent. Doesn't mean anything. 

https://theriotreport.com/more-than-50-of-first-round-picks-are-busts-and-other-terrifying-draft-statistics/

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BrianS Veteran

BrianS

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16 hours ago, AndrewLaskoski said:

This seems like a good thread to drop this tweet in. 

 

Which brought the Falcons how many Lombardi trophies?  How many playoff berths?  The Julio Jones years have featured a grand total of four winning seasons.  All while they had a CLEAR franchise QB.  Which we do not.

Instead of focusing on Chase, think of our situation this way:  If we had a top 10 QB under center, what would DJ and Robby look like?  Bearing in mind, with TB5 at QB, both of them were in the top 15 last year.

DJ Moore averaged 18 yards per catch last year . . . EIGHTEEN!  Eighty percent of his catches went for first downs!  We raved about how clutch Curtis Samuel was last year, and only 50% of his catches were for first downs.  DJ was the epitome of clutch.  How many times did we see DJ running WIDE ASS OPEN deep last year.  It was damn sickening.  We don't need to draft an superstar WR, we already have one!

WR's don't win games, QB's do.  WR's are not the secret sauce, that's your QB.  The real question your staff have to answer is:  Do we believe our QB is Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Mahomes, etc.  Those guys can put the team on their shoulders and win games for you.  As good as Tyreek Hill, Davante Adams, Mike Evans and DK Metcalf are they are utterly irrelevant without that franchise guy pulling the trigger.

If a guy your staff believes in is there when you are on the clock, you take the QB.  It's super simple.  There is no such thing as "too many" legit NFL QB's on your roster.

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AndrewLaskoski Enthusiast

AndrewLaskoski

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6 minutes ago, BrianS said:

Which brought the Falcons how many Lombardi trophies?  How many playoff berths?  The Julio Jones years have featured a grand total of four winning seasons.  All while they had a CLEAR franchise QB.  Which we do not.

Instead of focusing on Chase, think of our situation this way:  If we had a top 10 QB under center, what would DJ and Robby look like?  Bearing in mind, with TB5 at QB, both of them were in the top 15 last year.

DJ Moore averaged 18 yards per catch last year . . . EIGHTEEN!  Eighty percent of his catches went for first downs!  We raved about how clutch Curtis Samuel was last year, and only 50% of his catches were for first downs.  DJ was the epitome of clutch.  How many times did we see DJ running WIDE ASS OPEN deep last year.  It was damn sickening.  We don't need to draft an superstar WR, we already have one!

WR's don't win games, QB's do.  WR's are not the secret sauce, that's your QB.  The real question your staff have to answer is:  Do we believe our QB is Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Mahomes, etc.  Those guys can put the team on their shoulders and win games for you.  As good as Tyreek Hill, Davante Adams, Mike Evans and DK Metcalf are they are utterly irrelevant without that franchise guy pulling the trigger.

If a guy your staff believes in is there when you are on the clock, you take the QB.  It's super simple.  There is no such thing as "too many" legit NFL QB's on your roster.

The point of my tweet was there’s no definitive answer to whether trading back in the 1st round is worthwhile, not whatever your response is going in on. 

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jayboogieman Grand Master

jayboogieman

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30 minutes ago, BrianS said:

Which brought the Falcons how many Lombardi trophies?  How many playoff berths?  The Julio Jones years have featured a grand total of four winning seasons.  All while they had a CLEAR franchise QB.  Which we do not.

Instead of focusing on Chase, think of our situation this way:  If we had a top 10 QB under center, what would DJ and Robby look like?  Bearing in mind, with TB5 at QB, both of them were in the top 15 last year.

DJ Moore averaged 18 yards per catch last year . . . EIGHTEEN!  Eighty percent of his catches went for first downs!  We raved about how clutch Curtis Samuel was last year, and only 50% of his catches were for first downs.  DJ was the epitome of clutch.  How many times did we see DJ running WIDE ASS OPEN deep last year.  It was damn sickening.  We don't need to draft an superstar WR, we already have one!

WR's don't win games, QB's do.  WR's are not the secret sauce, that's your QB.  The real question your staff have to answer is:  Do we believe our QB is Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Mahomes, etc.  Those guys can put the team on their shoulders and win games for you.  As good as Tyreek Hill, Davante Adams, Mike Evans and DK Metcalf are they are utterly irrelevant without that franchise guy pulling the trigger.

If a guy your staff believes in is there when you are on the clock, you take the QB.  It's super simple.  There is no such thing as "too many" legit NFL QB's on your roster.

The bolded part derails your draft the QB in the first round argument. As you stated, 4 winning seasons with an elite WR and franchise QB. The Panthers had 3 winning seasons with a franchise QB(Cam). A good team can win with an average QB. A franchise QB can't win without a good team. The best thing the Panthers could do is draft impact players at positions of need. They seem to think QB is no longer a need. They might be right and they might be wrong. Either Darnold has a Delhomme like turn or proves he's the next Clausen and leads to the next franchise QB. Either way the Panthers win. If the Panthers draft a QB, it'll probably be a developmental guy in the mid rounds since that is what the GM says he prefers to do.

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