Ye Evolution of the OL has Begunst

[jayflip]

46 minutes ago, Ja Rhule said:

Moton bought his parents a house in Indian Land so I’m sure he’d want to stay with the Panthers.

Lmfao y’all gotta suburb named Indian Land?

[Maybenextyear]

51 minutes ago, jayflip said:

Lmfao y’all gotta suburb named Indian Land?

Yup, and got another suburb named Indian Trail.

[Ja Rhule]

1 hour ago, jayflip said:

Lmfao y’all gotta suburb named Indian Land?

Yea, it was a huge Native American presence here.  Catawba tribe I believe. They are building a casino now few miles from there.

[pantherclaw]

Moton is our best lineman, and I jave zero problems with him being paid as such. 

[Basbear]

Right at this time, Im planning on tagging Moton for a 2nd time. 20+million for any non-LT OLman, fug that. At the end of the 2nd tag he would be 30, dont want 20+ million tied up in that. Tag and trade is another option, Javis Landry had that happen.

 

Honestly the only spot where I had huge concerns is LT. I believe someone will step up and win LG role. Not going to start pulling a stbugs about sewell to the lions, just wished they would have gave the panthers the option to pick Sewell. 

 

Future does look decent with the guys form this draft, moore could fill a role in 2022. Elf and Evring while playing like poop, maybe the Rhule and crew can work a miracle. But I want the same thing I wanted in 2021 in 2022 draft- 3 OLmen, 2 of which need to be OTs.  

[Cdparr7]

5 hours ago, MHS831 said:

If this draft pans out and in 2 years we have a third rounder, a sixth rounder, and possibly an undrafted free agent playing key roles, that is a coup. Not only was Fitterer trying to find the best free agents and draft picks, he had to be doing so with the idea of re-signing Moton. With DJ Moore, Anderson (Possibly), Darnold, Burns, etc. salaries on the horizon, he has some tough calls to make down the road.  For example, Moton reportedly wants LT money.  Have the Panthers positioned themselves to accommodate that cost?  That loss? Some will say, “But MHS, we are going to have more cap room!!!  Frugal GMs that make wise decisions win rings—not big spenders with daddy’s credit card.

  Taking a look at the roster, you can see the players below (not bolded) who are probably not going to be on the roster in 2022.  The only bolded player who could be a free agent in 2022 is Moton, and the rest of the bolded players are signed on reasonable contracts through at least 2023 (at least for 2 more seasons). 

I wonder if this move gives us more than depth—it gives us options. 

With that in mind, getting these 3 rookies playing is going to be important even if we do not lock down Moton by July. 

·        C Matt Paradis’ final season as a starter is probably 2021. He is 32 and has a voidable contract after 2021, but it would create $4+m in dead cap for 2022 and 2023, the way I understand it.

 

·        RG John Miller’s final season on his contract is 2021.  He will be 29.

 

·        OT Trenton Scott’s final season on his contract is 2021.  He will be 28.

 

·         Rookie Contract: OT Greg Little for the 2021 season (he will be cut in 2022 unless he is cut now--we will probably carry 10 OL, and this list has 11…)

 

·        OT Taylor Moton’s final season is 2021.  He is 27.  Expect him to get a contract for 4 years.

 

·        Signed LG/C Elflein for 3 years, through 2023. 

 

·        Signed OL Irving for 2 years, through 2022.

 

·        Rookie Contract:  LG/OT Dennis Daley through the 2022 season.

 

·        Rookie Contract:  OT Brady Christenson (2/3 round value) to play LT-through 2024.

 

·        We drafted OG Deonte Brown (4th round value) to play RG through 2024.

 

·        We signed SR BOWL OG/C Dave Moore (5^th round value) to play IOL through 2024.

 

So looking at the group that is guaranteed to be here for the next 2 seasons, IF NO OTHER PLAYERS ARE ADDED AND WE DECIDE THAT MOTON WANTS TOO MUCH $$$,  you STILL have a potentially-effective OL:

 

·        LT Christensen

 

·        LG Elflein (Daley)

 

·        C Moore (Elflein)

 

·        RG Brown

 

·        RT Irving (Daley)

 

It is my opinion that we will re-sign Moton for about $18m per season for 5 years, and Christensen develops into a serviceable lineman—hopefully a LT.  I see a day when Elflien is given a shot at C, and Moore and Brown are given guard duties.

 

So if you kept hearing, “We are building the OL, I guess you can say that we drafted 3 players after the second round that can all be starting in a year or two.  That is all you ask for.

 

Just trying to keep some fresh perspective on the Huddle folks.  Not trying to be an expert, but I am not interested in the fact that Juston Burris is considering changing his shoe size or that the Boston Celtics offered us a future pick to move up for a guard.  This is real, and you can almost see the plan unfolding.

 

I think Paradis will be back one more year. I could see us drafting a center in day 2 next year. Also not sold Christenson is our LT of the future. Probably gonna be our biggest FA addition or day 1 pick next year. But I like your optimism.

[bigdavis]

OP, shouldn't you have edited the thread title to read, "Ye Olde...?"

[1of10Charnatives]

I favor keeping Moton, just not for elite LT money. He is good, but how many pro bowls has he played in? How many All Pro teams has he made? You don't get paid based off your own assessment of your worth, you get paid off the market's assessment of your worth, and so far the market does not seem to be deeming him elite. 

Also he doesn't actually play LT.  If the market has decided that tackles are just tackles, and is no longer making a distinction between left and right side value (a whole separate conversation) then fine, but the fact remains there is no consensus he's elite, so why exactly does he deserve elite money?

Overpaying existing players was one of the most obvious sins of Hurney past. We all celebrated his departure. Why in the world would we want our new GM to become Hurney 2.0 in this respect?

[pantherclaw]

43 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I’m sorry, but this is a scary OL. 3 rookies, Elflein and Erving?

That potential OL should keep people up at night. That’s a gigantic leap of faith that two below average (good OL aren’t usually on their 3rd and 4th teams) vets and 3 rookies will be a good OL. Not saying I don’t like some of the potential but depending on potential at all 5 spots is not a good move.

This should make it damn obvious that we need to pay Moton.

No scarier than every year.   As there is always new starters along the line, and it's really more important for them to learn to play as a unit. 

[pantherclaw]

51 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I know you aren’t a fan of questioning the team but you honestly think Elflein, Moore, Brown, Erving and Christensen is a solid OL in 2022 if Moton is gone? When we had speed bump we also still had a solid core of Ryan, Norwell and Turner with Williams at RT. Same when we had Oher and Remmers. Last year Paradis played closer to his pre-injury and Moton was solid.

Those 5 are all hope so I think you are wrong about those 5 in 2022 not being any scarier than the year before. None of them have proven to be solid OL or have played together before. That would absolutely not be the same as every year when we’ve had 2-3 solid proven OL who’ve played together before. It’s one thing to say new starters come every year and it’s another thing to get rid of your best OL and have 5 brand new starters.

You don't know me. Thanks for acting like you do.  I remember why I never waste time with you. 

[kungfoodude]

I puked in my mouth a little.

[OldhamA]

8 hours ago, MHS831 said:

If this draft pans out and in 2 years we have a third rounder, a sixth rounder, and possibly an undrafted free agent playing key roles, that is a coup. Not only was Fitterer trying to find the best free agents and draft picks, he had to be doing so with the idea of re-signing Moton. With DJ Moore, Anderson (Possibly), Darnold, Burns, etc. salaries on the horizon, he has some tough calls to make down the road.  For example, Moton reportedly wants LT money.  Have the Panthers positioned themselves to accommodate that cost?  That loss? Some will say, “But MHS, we are going to have more cap room!!!  Frugal GMs that make wise decisions win rings—not big spenders with daddy’s credit card.

  Taking a look at the roster, you can see the players below (not bolded) who are probably not going to be on the roster in 2022.  The only bolded player who could be a free agent in 2022 is Moton, and the rest of the bolded players are signed on reasonable contracts through at least 2023 (at least for 2 more seasons). 

I wonder if this move gives us more than depth—it gives us options. 

With that in mind, getting these 3 rookies playing is going to be important even if we do not lock down Moton by July. 

·        C Matt Paradis’ final season as a starter is probably 2021. He is 32 and has a voidable contract after 2021, but it would create $4+m in dead cap for 2022 and 2023, the way I understand it.

 

·        RG John Miller’s final season on his contract is 2021.  He will be 29.

 

·        OT Trenton Scott’s final season on his contract is 2021.  He will be 28.

 

·         Rookie Contract: OT Greg Little for the 2021 season (he will be cut in 2022 unless he is cut now--we will probably carry 10 OL, and this list has 11…)

 

·        OT Taylor Moton’s final season is 2021.  He is 27.  Expect him to get a contract for 4 years.

 

·        Signed LG/C Elflein for 3 years, through 2023. 

 

·        Signed OL Irving for 2 years, through 2022.

 

·        Rookie Contract:  LG/OT Dennis Daley through the 2022 season.

 

·        Rookie Contract:  OT Brady Christenson (2/3 round value) to play LT-through 2024.

 

·        We drafted OG Deonte Brown (4th round value) to play RG through 2024.

 

·        We signed SR BOWL OG/C Dave Moore (5^th round value) to play IOL through 2024.

 

So looking at the group that is guaranteed to be here for the next 2 seasons, IF NO OTHER PLAYERS ARE ADDED AND WE DECIDE THAT MOTON WANTS TOO MUCH $$$,  you STILL have a potentially-effective OL:

 

·        LT Christensen

 

·        LG Elflein (Daley)

 

·        C Moore (Elflein)

 

·        RG Brown

 

·        RT Irving (Daley)

 

It is my opinion that we will re-sign Moton for about $18m per season for 5 years, and Christensen develops into a serviceable lineman—hopefully a LT.  I see a day when Elflien is given a shot at C, and Moore and Brown are given guard duties.

 

So if you kept hearing, “We are building the OL, I guess you can say that we drafted 3 players after the second round that can all be starting in a year or two.  That is all you ask for.

 

Just trying to keep some fresh perspective on the Huddle folks.  Not trying to be an expert, but I am not interested in the fact that Juston Burris is considering changing his shoe size or that the Boston Celtics offered us a future pick to move up for a guard.  This is real, and you can almost see the plan unfolding.

 

This post here is why when I read the "No excuses for Darnold now" posts I think: 

 

If we mold a cohesive unit out of that rag tag bunch I'll be impressed.

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by OldhamA

[pantherclaw]

2 hours ago, stbugs said:

 you honestly think Elflein, Moore, Brown, Erving and Christensen is a solid OL in 2022 if Moton is gone? 

 

Those 5 are all hope so I think you are wrong about those 5 in 2022 not being any scarier than the year before. None of them have proven to be solid OL or have played together before. That would absolutely not be the same as every year when we’ve had 2-3 solid proven OL who’ve played together before. It’s one thing to say new starters come every year and it’s another thing to get rid of your best OL and have 5 brand new starters.

We haven't had a solid olibe in years, stop acting like the team walked away from something they shouldn't have. 

I believe Moton will be here for the long haul. He is the definition of a Panther player, and our best lineman.  So that takes away your first question. 

So because we have a bunch of new parts, you just assume they'll suck until they prove you otherwise? Don't bother responding to that. It's just how you present your weak arguement.  

Paradis played well last year. I expect him to play well again. Although I do believe that he won't be here beyond his current contract. 

It's obvious you don't think much of the FAs we got. It's obvious you don't think guards can start as rookies, and play well. 

When it comes to the oline gelling, the fact of the matter they won't be gelling until a month into the season.  It's like that every year it the current NFL, unless ya happen to keep 4 or all of the starting line from the previous season. I miss the old days of being able to keep a good line together for a decade. That just can't exist in the.modern NFL. 

Your also being VERY dismissive of our coaching staff. You act luke they have no chance to field a decent or better oline out of these guys.  

You might as well quit. Quit watching. Quit being a fan. Because everyone sucks poo in your eyes. There is no way they can play well. 

I guess our staff better quit also.  

According.to you, our offense stands no chance. Our team has acquired all this offensive talent to let it waste behind a bad oline. Damn our team is stupid.  What the fug are they thinking???

While you may say my take doesn't question the staff, I can't wrap my mind around the fact that everyone are lovers. Must be how you grew up. 

While I don't expect to see an elite oline, I expect the team to field a good one.  I know it'll take time to gel. Longer than I wish it would. Always longer than I think it should. 

Last year's oline ranked right in the middle of the NFL. So evidently we still judge hardly. Including myself.  

I'm looking forward to watching games this year. Sure beats your outlook. 

P.S. I have chosen to put you on ignore. I'm sure you won't miss me. I certainly won't be missing you. 

 

God Bless. 

[Moo Daeng]

Does stbugs think that we are stuck with these players forever and won't have drafts, trades, or free agency ever again? What the heck?

You got the Panthers brain trust of Wall Street analysts, MIT Economists, 20+ year scouts, cap gurus, etc playing chess then this guy playing tic tac toe questioning them. Funny