Sam's contract and our options

[AU-panther]

I keep seeing some of the same questions over and over about Sam's contract next year so maybe this will help people understand our options.  I'm far from an expert so I miss something let me know but this should be correct.

Since we picked up Sam's 5th year option he is guaranteed $18.8m for the 2022 season.  If we cut him that is a $18.8 cap hit to our team next season.

People keep asking, "what if we trade him"?  Guaranteed salary is tradeable, but the question is what team would give even a conditional 7th round pick to take on Sam's $18.8m cap hit.  Answer is none.

So what our our options.

We could attach a pick with Sam hoping a team(usually a bad one) with plenty of cap space would take on the salary (happens all of the time in the NBA). 

Lets be real though, what would it take?  What would you expect if you were the offering team?  I don't see a team doing for a 3rd.  I don't see us doing it for a 1st.  My guess is it probably would take a 2nd, and even then I have my doubts.  

Next option is for us to pay part of the salary along with offering a pick.  For example Sam + 5th + us paying $10m of his salary of it for a 7th.  Here again just making up numbers to illustrate how it would work, no idea what it would take.

Another option would be to package him with a player.  Most likely a player that has a year or two left on his contract.  Maybe someone that is a free agent in 2023 that we have our doubts we can resign.  For example, Sam + Burns for a 1st and 2nd. (not saying we should, just to illustrate how it would work.)

Best and most realistic option is to keep him at least through camp next year, short of working out some combo trade or attaching picks, I don't' see any team giving you anything for him between now and then.  He is already paid for doesn't cost the team anything to keep him in camp when rosters are 90.

Maybe he looks decent next preseason and some team has an injury and is desperate for a backup and at that point maybe you get a conditional pick if you are willing to pay his salary.  Or if he turns the proverbial corner he is Cam's backup if Cam is still here.

Also quick note about June 1st cuts, I see people referencing that a lot with Sam's contract also, it does not apply.  June 1st helps when a contract has multiple years of dead money left, not a single year.

For example lets say a player has dead money cap hits of $5m (2022), $5m (2023),$5m (2024).  If you cut said player then all of his dead money would accelerate into the current year, his cap hit would be $15m. 

With June 1st designation you spread out it, and its not a 50% split like a lot think.  It allows you to take just the current years cap hit, and then the following year you take the rest.  For example said player would have cap hit of $5m in 2022 and then $10m in 2024.

Sam only has one year left on his contract, nothing to slit.

 

 

 

 

[Jackie Lee]

Yup the draft pick/good player plus Sam trade is the only option. Realistically the only rebuilding teams with lots of cap are Dolphins and Jaguars. Broncos/Bengals/Jets have a good chunk of money but I just don't see them being interested. We also don't have a 2nd or 3rd round pick next year so I don't know if we can entice anyone to take a 2023 pick in exchange. This was one extremely expensive mistake between the picks and 5th year option

[joemac]

10 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I keep seeing some of the same questions over and over about Sam's contract next year so maybe this will help people understand our options.  I'm far from an expert so I miss something let me know but this should be correct.

Since we picked up Sam's 5th year option he is guaranteed $18.8m for the 2022 season.  If we cut him that is a $18.8 cap hit to our team next season.

People keep asking, "what if we trade him"?  Guaranteed salary is tradeable, but the question is what team would give even a conditional 7th round pick to take on Sam's $18.8m cap hit.  Answer is none.

So what our our options.

We could attach a pick with Sam hoping a team(usually a bad one) with plenty of cap space would take on the salary (happens all of the time in the NBA). 

Lets be real though, what would it take?  What would you expect if you were the offering team?  I don't see a team doing for a 3rd.  I don't see us doing it for a 1st.  My guess is it probably would take a 2nd, and even then I have my doubts.  

Next option is for us to pay part of the salary along with offering a pick.  For example Sam + 5th + us paying $10m of his salary of it for a 7th.  Here again just making up numbers to illustrate how it would work, no idea what it would take.

Another option would be to package him with a player.  Most likely a player that has a year or two left on his contract.  Maybe someone that is a free agent in 2023 that we have our doubts we can resign.  For example, Sam + Burns for a 1st and 2nd. (not saying we should, just to illustrate how it would work.)

Best and most realistic option is to keep him at least through camp next year, short of working out some combo trade or attaching picks, I don't' see any team giving you anything for him between now and then.  He is already paid for doesn't cost the team anything to keep him in camp when rosters are 90.

Maybe he looks decent next preseason and some team has an injury and is desperate for a backup and at that point maybe you get a conditional pick if you are willing to pay his salary.  Or if he turns the proverbial corner he is Cam's backup if Cam is still here.

Also quick note about June 1st cuts, I see people referencing that a lot with Sam's contract also, it does not apply.  June 1st helps when a contract has multiple years of dead money left, not a single year.

For example lets say a player has dead money cap hits of $5m (2022), $5m (2023),$5m (2024).  If you cut said player then all of his dead money would accelerate into the current year, his cap hit would be $15m. 

With June 1st designation you spread out it, and its not a 50% split like a lot think.  It allows you to take just the current years cap hit, and then the following year you take the rest.  For example said player would have cap hit of $5m in 2022 and then $10m in 2024.

Sam only has one year left on his contract, nothing to slit.

 

 

 

 

Only thing I see is to somehow sign him to an extension with the express purpose of cutting him and spreading the cap hit over a few years as dead money.  So, instead of 1 year 18 mil, they sign him to a 2 or 3 year, 18 million contract.  Sam still gets his money, but we are able to mitigate the 1 year cap hit and spread it over a few years.  Hell, I don't even know if something like that is possible.  Maybe give him another 2 or 3 million to make it worth his while?

[BrianS]

We're screwed.  Got it.

[Luciu5]

2 minutes ago, joemac said:

Only thing I see is to somehow sign him to an extension with the express purpose of cutting him and spreading the cap hit over a few years as dead money.  So, instead of 1 year 18 mil, they sign him to a 2 or 3 year, 18 million contract.  Sam still gets his money, but we are able to mitigate the 1 year cap hit and spread it over a few years.  Hell, I don't even know if something like that is possible.  Maybe give him another 2 or 3 million to make it worth his while?

Voidable years like we did when we signed Reddick.  Reddick's on a two year deal but next year is voidable.  In other words, part of his salary this year doesn't hit the cap till next year. I'd imagine Sam would have to agree to that. All sorts of accounting magic can be done.

Darnolds cap hit is as inconsequential as the FO wants it to be. Personally I'd eat the cap this year and if we are going to kick anything down the road, do so with players actually on the roster.

[joemac]

2 minutes ago, Luciu5 said:

Voidable years like we did when we signed Reddick.  Reddick's on a two year deal but next year is voidable.  In other words, part of his salary this year doesn't hit the cap till next year. I'd imagine Sam would have to agree to that. All sorts of accounting magic can be done.

Darnolds cap hit is as inconsequential as the FO wants it to be. Personally I'd eat the cap this year and if we are going to kick anything down the road, do so with players actually on the roster.

Yeah, thats kinda what I had in mind.  Only thing though is that his agent will probably try and talk him out of something like that, considering that hes due 18 million next year if he does nothing.  But I do like the voidable years idea.  Resign him to a 3 year 20 million dollar contract with an 18 million dollar signing bonus, which can then get spread out over 3 years instead of all at once.  Am I talking out of my ass?  Is this even possible?

[Cpt slay a ho]

We are going to have to attach a 2nd and Sam to get him on a bad team, that’s just reality, if after the trade that money is use on the o line or resigning our own I’m good with that instead of having Sam sit and eat up cap, I’d assume barring some mvp like resurgence resigning cam isn’t going to break the bank and will be cheaper than Sam 

[ThPantherFan]

13 minutes ago, joemac said:

Only thing I see is to somehow sign him to an extension with the express purpose of cutting him and spreading the cap hit over a few years as dead money.

I haven't thought of that option.  Sounds like the best.

[panthers55]

Sure glad we have a capologist who understands how things work. Giving up draft picks to trade him makes little sense. We will likely keep him and see what happens next year. Right now Cam isnt signed beyond this year. People are getting way ahead of themselves.

[kungfoodude]

If we can't somehow dump him in a trade, I would just cut him. He is taking up room on the roster and cannot help us even in the case of injury. 

It's just time to move on if he can't be moved.

[Luciu5]

2 minutes ago, joemac said:

Yeah, thats kinda what I had in mind.  Only thing though is that his agent will probably try and talk him out of something like that, considering that hes due 18 million next year if he does nothing.  But I do like the voidable years idea.  Resign him to a 3 year 20 million dollar contract with an 18 million dollar signing bonus, which can then get spread out over 3 years instead of all at once.  Am I talking out of my ass?  Is this even possible?

Idk with a 5th year option situation that is already fully guaranteed.  Usually you would add years to the contract, making it $18 million for year 1 and $0 for years 2 and 3 (or any non-guaranteed money like Taysom Hill), then make some amount into bonus money which can then be spread out over the next 3 years. But with it being a 5th year option, I don't know if it can be manipulated the same way.

[Jackie Lee]

7 minutes ago, joemac said:

Yeah, thats kinda what I had in mind.  Only thing though is that his agent will probably try and talk him out of something like that, considering that hes due 18 million next year if he does nothing.  But I do like the voidable years idea.  Resign him to a 3 year 20 million dollar contract with an 18 million dollar signing bonus, which can then get spread out over 3 years instead of all at once.  Am I talking out of my ass?  Is this even possible?

If the Saints can pull off these stunts without penalty seems like anything is possible as long as a player agrees to it

[Cpt slay a ho]

Best bet is trading sam, our 2nd to a team and hoping to get back a 4th or 5th. 
 

unfortunately sam’s last game and tape is atrocious 

[TheRumGone]

7 minutes ago, Cpt slay a ho said:

Best bet is trading sam, our 2nd to a team and hoping to get back a 4th or 5th. 
 

unfortunately sam’s last game and tape is atrocious 

We’d have wasted 2 2nd round picks and fourth and a 6th for 1 year of worst starting qb in the league play. Lol. Naw I’d rather just cut him and eat the 1 year 18 mill cap hit then trade any more picks.