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Panthers favor Malik Willis?

micnificent28

By micnificent28,
in Carolina Panthers

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micnificent28 Veteran

micnificent28

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's like saying Luke Kuechly changed the game, but he didn't.

Being unique doesn't change the game. You can only be credited with changing the game if others are able to duplicate what you did. And no, guys like Mariota and Hurts don't compare to Newton. Heck, those guys would make you want to not draft that type of quarterback.

As to the systems, you're seeing more of the other kind because very few colleges run pro style systems anymore. It's become much harder to find a prorated quarterback and it used to be so you have to adapt.

Hurts, Mariota, RG3 are failed examples. But my point is the success of the aforementioned lead to coaches trying to find their own version. Even if it was a cheap knockoff.  The reason I can't say Luke changed the game at linebacker because he played the game exactly the way it has always been played but was very good at it.

You can't say that at Cam because, look at the deigned runs, the RPOs used to fake defenses into thinking his patented power goalline rush was coming and instead he throws. Things like that you weren't really afraid of with Brady or Stafford whoever...  you don't defend Cam in the readzone the way you defend those other guys. I think that difficulty absolutely made coaches say I want 1 of those.

Do you think people stopped being born  that can't run and throw from the pocket? No... in college anyway, it's easier to win with a guy who can run and throw vs a guy who can't move at all. That has infiltrated the league. The pocket passer is now that the mobile qb use to be.

 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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13 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Hurts, Mariota, RG3 are failed examples. But my point is the success of the aforementioned lead to coaches trying to find their own version. Even if it was a cheap knockoff.  The reason I can't say Luke changed the game at linebacker because he played the game exactly the way it has always been played but was very good at it.

You can't say that at Cam because, look at the deigned runs, the RPOs used to fake defenses into thinking his patented power goalline rush was coming and instead he throws. Things like that you weren't really afraid of with Brady or Stafford whoever...  you don't defend Cam in the readzone the way you defend those other guys. I think that difficulty absolutely made coaches say I want 1 of those.

Do you think people stopped being born  that can't run and throw from the pocket? No... in college anyway, it's easier to win with a guy who can run and throw vs a guy who can't move at all. That has infiltrated the league. The pocket passer is now that the mobile qb use to be.

The mobile QB has be n there since guys like Tarkenton, Staubach and others. It's not a new thing.

And again, being unique isn't "changing the game". Unless you shift the entire way the game is played, you're just a really good player. Those aren't new or different. Jerry Rice is undoubtedly the greatest receiver of all time, but did he change the game? No. He just played it extremely well.

If you want an example of someone who genuinely changed the game, look at Lawrence Taylor. Taylor shifted things on both sides of the ball, making teams look for faster, more athletic, pass rushing types at the linebacker position as well as pushing teams to shore up the left tackle position after what he did to Joe Theismann.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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4 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I’m afraid you are right. If he gets his way and drafts the QB he wants, he will go for the most pro ready in Pickett. 

I don't think Rhule wants to draft a quarterback.

I think Fitterer does. Rhule likely prefers acquiring a veteran.

But if they come to a compromise where they draft a quarterback but Matt Rhule is the one who chooses which one, then yes I think it's Kenny Pickett.

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micnificent28 Veteran

micnificent28

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7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The mobile QB has be n there since guys like Tarkenton, Staubach and others. It's not a new thing.

And again, being unique isn't "changing the game". Unless you shift the entire way the game is played, you're just a really good player. Those aren't new or different. Jerry Rice is undoubtedly the greatest receiver of all time, but did he change the game? No. He just played it extremely well.

If you want an example of someone who genuinely changed the game, look at Lawrence Taylor. Taylor shifted things on both sides of the ball, making teams look for faster, more athletic, pass rushing types at the linebacker position as well as pushing teams to shore up the left tackle position after what he did to Joe Theismann.

OK I see you using this Tarkenton, Staubach defense with good success but let's look at those guys.Screenshot_20220404-162624_Chrome.thumb.jpg.bca0cdcff825e1d42fe19d6dffb2d392.jpgScreenshot_20220404-162546_Chrome.thumb.jpg.add2dbfcd8787788ea6097615a0c69fc.jpgthose guys were the "runners" of there day and my response to that is they aren't even in the same stratosphere as vick or cam as a runner. With 60 carries being the most either has had in a season neither even getting 500 yards.

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MechaZain Grand Master

MechaZain

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2 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

But rhule might not have a next year.. you gonna run out same and think he is magically better? Or swing at another guy who might be better. The future is now for Rhule not next year and hope tepper gives him another year or 2 after next with a rookie qb.

 I think an LT at #6 and Sam gives us a better record next year than tossing a rookie behind this line. 

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micnificent28

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2 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

 I think an LT at #6 and Sam gives us a better record next year than tossing a rookie behind this line. 

This isn't the same line as last season. You signed 2 guys Bozeman and the rams guard. If you plug Christensen in at LT you basically have a decent shot at already having upgraded...

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

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2 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

 I think an LT at #6 and Sam gives us a better record next year than tossing a rookie behind this line. 

Willis is getting you wins.  Pickett behind this line isn't scaring any opponents.   Best case I guess is like you say.  Build the line and pray with darnold

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

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15 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

OK I see you using this Tarkenton, Staubach defense with good success but let's look at those guys.Screenshot_20220404-162624_Chrome.thumb.jpg.bca0cdcff825e1d42fe19d6dffb2d392.jpgScreenshot_20220404-162546_Chrome.thumb.jpg.add2dbfcd8787788ea6097615a0c69fc.jpgthose guys were the "runners" of there day and my response to that is they aren't even in the same stratosphere as vick or cam as a runner. With 60 carries being the most either has had in a season neither even getting 500 yards.

They didn't have to be since they could throw.

Staubach invented the Hail Mary.

Look I know you're some young punk wrapped up in Madden and fantasy football bullchit.

But you are out of your depth.

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Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

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1 hour ago, micnificent28 said:

OK I see you using this Tarkenton, Staubach defense with good success but let's look at those guys.Screenshot_20220404-162624_Chrome.thumb.jpg.bca0cdcff825e1d42fe19d6dffb2d392.jpgScreenshot_20220404-162546_Chrome.thumb.jpg.add2dbfcd8787788ea6097615a0c69fc.jpgthose guys were the "runners" of there day and my response to that is they aren't even in the same stratosphere as vick or cam as a runner. With 60 carries being the most either has had in a season neither even getting 500 yards.

You're a good guy but Vick and Cam don't even belong in the same universe as Rodger Staubach. They just don't. 

The man had to serve his time in the military including time in Vietnam before he could play. Otherwise he would spend his 30 days of vacation at training camp.

Also they didn't protect QBs back then. There was no sliding. There wasn't red jerseys in preseason practices. You could hit helmet to helmet or just club them over the head. Lineman got 2 to 3 full steps after the ball was thrown.

Yeah he wasn't mobile at all...

 

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's like saying Luke Kuechly changed the game, but he didn't.

Being unique doesn't change the game. You can only be credited with changing the game if others are able to duplicate what you did. And no, guys like Mariota and Hurts don't compare to Newton. Heck, those guys would make you want to not draft that type of quarterback.

As to the systems, you're seeing more of the other kind because very few colleges run pro style systems anymore. It's become much harder to find a prorated quarterback and it used to be so you have to adapt.

I don't think the college systems have as much impact on that evolution as the changes to pass interference and illegal contact have made. The reality is that it's just a lot easier to have a high flying passing offense in the NFL nowadays than it was 20 years ago.

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Tr3ach Grand Master

Tr3ach

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3 hours ago, frankw said:

Mobility with the position is common across the league though so can you really overrate it? Statue type QB's are much more rare than they were ten years ago when we took Cam. If you look at the best QB's right now almost all of them have that ability some more than others. Even Tom Brady will move around now.

Most people seem to act like Willis is the only qb with mobility in this draft though?   Every qb that could potentially go in the first or second round besides Strong I would consider very mobile for a qb for NFL standards.

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frankw Grand Master

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8 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

Most people seem to act like Willis is the only qb with mobility in this draft though?   Every qb that could potentially go in the first or second round besides Strong I would consider very mobile for a qb for NFL standards.

Obviously indicative of the clear fact the league is changing. Some people don't like it but they don't have to watch they can covet their highlights from back when football was played the "right" way in their minds 🤷‍♂️

And to be clear I am not Willis or bust. It is just extremely tiring to see the same "I don't want another Michael Vick!!!!" takes on repeat. Some people are painfully backward.

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