The most key addition may be McAdoo.

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

And Josh McDaniel had a worse offense than us in 2020.  You have to have a certain of talent before your OC matters. 

Ryan, Vick, Smith, etc are all capable QBs.  They just weren’t top tier.  Your OC starts to matter once you have capable QB play. 

If you get a Jimmy Clausen, Sam Darnold type behind C…..Andy Reid would have a bottom half of the league offense with them.  You can’t  scheme around a guy that can’t do basics in a passing league after a couple weeks.  You just lose.  If we cloned Andy Reid our offense would have still stunk last year.   
 

 

Oh yeah you definitely right.  You have to have a capable QB and OL in order to have any success.  A good OC can hide some deficiencies, but none that big.  They also need a HC that won't handcuff them and their game plan.  

I think we still would have sucked with Reid, but not on the same level as we did.  He would have kept Cam as the guy throughout the season and actually game plan around our weaknesses with a fast paced offense and quick read passes/option reads.  Probably still bottom of the league, but not as bad as the garbage with trotted on the field last year.  

[shaqattaq]

2 hours ago, ThPantherFan said:

That's true but he is an upgrade from what we've had.  If we could just get rule fired and hire a legitimate head coach.

I think our offense as a whole has been making small-but-significant steps to the good. Mayfield is better than Darnold (I like Coral a lot too, but will leave that to other threads), RB room is better, coaches are better, O-line is A LOT better.

Tepper seems to be really invested in Rhule, and is giving him every opportunity to succeed. I just wish there wasn't so much on the job training.

[ThPantherFan]

1 minute ago, shaqattaq said:

I think our offense as a whole has been making small-but-significant steps to the good. Mayfield is better than Darnold (I like Coral a lot too, but will leave that to other threads), RB room is better, coaches are better, O-line is A LOT better.

Tepper seems to be really invested in Rhule, and is giving him every opportunity to succeed. I just wish there wasn't so much on the job training.

Can't argue that.

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, Snake said:

Define what good is? Yes he's better than a Joe Brady. No he's not as good as Leftwitch or Kellen Moore. 

as @CRA stated the QB/OL helps a ton.  Leftwitch has Brady the GOAT with a solid OL and Moore has one of the best OLs with Dak.  I'm not 100% sure either is as good as advertised.  

[Snake]

14 minutes ago, CRA said:

And Josh McDaniel had a worse offense than us in 2020.  You have to have a certain of talent before your OC matters. 

Ryan, Vick, Smith, etc are all capable QBs.  They just weren’t top tier.  Your OC starts to matter once you have capable QB play. 

If you get a Jimmy Clausen, Sam Darnold type behind C…..Andy Reid would have a bottom half of the league offense with them.  You can’t  scheme around a guy that can’t do basics in a passing league after a couple weeks.  You just lose.  If we cloned Andy Reid our offense would have still stunk last year.   
 

 

Andy Reid would have gotten it done. Still he's a HOF coach and OC. Yes talent matters in the NFL but great OCs get it done without superstars. It just gets better when they have them. Probably the best example is New Orleans. No Drew Brees no problem. Payton schemes around it. The team isn't as great but they win because their coach is a great OC. If you gave Payton Darnald he would have had a run first team and limited snaps. Brady on the other hand thought he could scheme his way to Darnald being a great passer. With a terrible line and no one behind McCaffrey. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Snake

[kungfoodude]

15 minutes ago, poundaway said:

Its true.  Rhule has shifted gears in many ways this year.  He may have shifted gears here to a more pass heavy O.

As for the last 2 years, if CMC  was healthy there would have certainly been more runs.  But Rhule wanted it balanced still, and Chuba and Davis were not CMC.  Brady had next to no experience with the run game, and Pat Meyer's rushing production before the Panthers wasn't great.  There's the plan and then there's gameday.

 

Yeah, it's extremely strange to see Rhule at pressers talking about being a run heavy attack and then make the hires he does. 

I haven't figured that out yet. He's either deflecting or he just hands over the keys to the OC.

[poundaway]

We don't know why he didn't get the jobs he interviewed for.   He's a big personality, he speaks his mind, he's not a McVay style OC, and he was still being paid by the Giants.  Not sure how that works.

He had 2 excellent OC years, and he had one good year at HC followed by a disaster year as HC that he didn't finish.

It certainly wasn't because he didn't produce when he was OC before.

As for "Odell carried McAdoo's O", I call bullshlt.  He had 1300 yards out of 4200 yards passing and  over 5800 yards total.   Yes Odell helped, but he didn't carry the O.  Odell hasn't  been spectacular since he left the Giants, even in seasons where he played all 16 games.   From this vantage it looks like Eli and McAdoo made Odell, not the other way around.   We'll see.  He has no excuses in LA.

[top dawg]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, it's extremely strange to see Rhule at pressers talking about being a run heavy attack and then make the hires he does. 

I haven't figured that out yet. He's either deflecting or he just hands over the keys to the OC.

I'm pretty sure that I heard Rhule say that he and McAdoo are pretty much on the same page as being a run-first type of offense. Hell, many coaches have the same belief. I fundamentally believe it, because "Why pass if you can run?" Belichick embarrassed the Bills doing it in their first meeting (and, yes, it was apropos for the weather conditions). But, I believe that you should be able to pass effectively and often if the run game is insufficient. Use the run to set up the pass and the pass to set up the run. I'm pretty sure that McAdoo believes in this as well. 

As far as I'm concerned, Rhule should hand over the keys. If what was displayed during Brady's tenure was with Rhule's active participation or without it, I have no desire to see our backs repeatedly and nauseatingly running into the pile. Hopefully our O-line will afford more open lanes in the run game, which should in turn open up the passing lanes.

 

 

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

I think one of the most interesting things to watch is the offense we run. Rhule keeps talking about having a run first identity as a team but that is not the offense that he has actually run. 

There seems to be a pretty big disconnect between what Rhule claims to want to be doing offensively and what we actually do on Sundays. 

Which sorta hints to me that Rhule may not have meddled with the offense as much as many people think.  Rhule has been saying for a while that he wants to be a run-first offense, which happens to also be how he ran his college teams, but our offensive playcalling has not exactly reflected that.  And when you consider that, along with who our OC has been the last two seasons (LSU pass game coordinator), it seems more likely that Brady was largely running his own offense.  It's easy to imagine an inexperienced OC with an over-reliance on his bread-and-butter rather than branching out of his comfort zone to install a balanced gameplan, and I think that meshes with what we've seen on the field over the last couple seasons.

I'm not too thrilled with the idea of being a run-first offense in the modern NFL, but I'm hoping we find a healthier balance.  I think Ekwonu (who's a straight up mauler in the run game) and the return of CMC should help with that.

[Jackie Lee]

3 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Teams seem to be preferring the new younger stat driven coaches/assistant coaches when it comes to offense (especially if they ever were within 3 feet of Sean McVay). He seems like a strong personality to take on as an assistant and these younger coaches probably want their own guys. His drop off as a head coach doesn’t help his case either…

Yeah spending all those years under Mike McCarthy only to find out that Rodgers can win with any scrub coaching staff hasn't really helped either of them in the long run. 

[poundaway]

49 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Which sorta hints to me that Rhule may not have meddled with the offense as much as many people think.  Rhule has been saying for a while that he wants to be a run-first offense, which happens to also be how he ran his college teams, but our offensive playcalling has not exactly reflected that.  And when you consider that, along with who our OC has been the last two seasons (LSU pass game coordinator), it seems more likely that Brady was largely running his own offense.  It's easy to imagine an inexperienced OC with an over-reliance on his bread-and-butter rather than branching out of his comfort zone to install a balanced gameplan, and I think that meshes with what we've seen on the field over the last couple seasons.

I'm not too thrilled with the idea of being a run-first offense in the modern NFL, but I'm hoping we find a healthier balance.  I think Ekwonu (who's a straight up mauler in the run game) and the return of CMC should help with that.

This.

[BrianS]

4 hours ago, Ricky Spanish said:

I'm interested to see how he utilizes the TEs in our offense. 

Looking at his history he was a TE coach before he was Aaron Rodger's QB Coach and in his stint with NY his TEs had moderate to good production behind OBJ being the #1 target.

Ian Thomas/Tommy Tremble could very well see 40 receptions this seasons and upwards of 600 yards receiving. 

I am cautiously optimistic.

 

Seeing as our TE's had 45 receptions and 452 yards last year, you're shooting low if you want to see improvements to be optimistic about.  Show me 70-80 catches and 800 yards.  Then I can get excited about our TE's producing something.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, top dawg said:

I'm pretty sure that I heard Rhule say that he and McAdoo are pretty much on the same page as being a run-first type of offense. Hell, many coaches have the same belief. I fundamentally believe it, because "Why pass if you can run?" Belichick embarrassed the Bills doing it in their first meeting (and, yes, it was apropos for the weather conditions). But, I believe that you should be able to pass effectively and often if the run game is insufficient. Use the run to set up the pass and the pass to set up the run. I'm pretty sure that McAdoo believes in this as well. 

As far as I'm concerned, Rhule should hand over the keys. If what was displayed during Brady's tenure was with Rhule's active participation or without it, I have no desire to see our backs repeatedly and nauseatingly running into the pile. Hopefully our O-line will afford more open lanes in the run game, which should in turn open up the passing lanes.

Well Rhule has no background in being an OC or playcaller, IIRC. I think he generally has to be pretty hands off for that reason.

The issue is the obvious schism between what he publicly says and the gameplans we have had. That even extended to his personal buddy after Brady got canned.

Furthermore, McAdoo didn't run a rush heavy offense in NY. So is he going to adjust to that or is Rhule gonna adjust to what McAdoo wants to do?

It will be one of the more interesting Panther storylines to watch unfold in 2022, that's for certain.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

Which sorta hints to me that Rhule may not have meddled with the offense as much as many people think.  Rhule has been saying for a while that he wants to be a run-first offense, which happens to also be how he ran his college teams, but our offensive playcalling has not exactly reflected that.  And when you consider that, along with who our OC has been the last two seasons (LSU pass game coordinator), it seems more likely that Brady was largely running his own offense.  It's easy to imagine an inexperienced OC with an over-reliance on his bread-and-butter rather than branching out of his comfort zone to install a balanced gameplan, and I think that meshes with what we've seen on the field over the last couple seasons.

I'm not too thrilled with the idea of being a run-first offense in the modern NFL, but I'm hoping we find a healthier balance.  I think Ekwonu (who's a straight up mauler in the run game) and the return of CMC should help with that.

I don't think he did meddle with the offense at all. I think he handed it all over to his guys and let them work. 

Which, that also flies in the face of the "micromanagement" criticism that often gets thrown around. So perhaps that isn't true either.

Either way, it's been fuging weird to see it all unfold.