Is Burns really worth backing up a Brinks truck?

[MHS831]

32 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Remember when John Elway was middling at best and then won two Super bowls late in his career. He is in the hall of fame based on those Superbowls late in his career. As for max contracts we don't know what we will pay and may not until the end of 2023. So all this max contracts talk is way premature at this point.

Elway's first year he had something like a 48% completion rate. 

People need to consider that a player like Burns impacts the game planning of the offense.  He might get doubled, and Brown makes the sack.  Does that make Brown a better pass rusher?  Burns, in an ideal world, would be a specialist.  Here, he is a three-down player, fwiw.  He is 24.

[Toomers]

Just now, MHS831 said:

Elway's first year he had something like a 48% completion rate. 

People need to consider that a player like Burns impacts the game planning of the offense.  He might get doubled, and Brown makes the sack.  Does that make Brown a better pass rusher?  Burns, in an ideal world, would be a specialist.  Here, he is a three-down player, fwiw.  He is 24.

It sure does. Every OC considers running the ball a lot more against CAR.  Brown gets double teamed twice what Burns does. So it’s a good idea to give a specialist 25M/year? Much less turn down a 2nd and two 1sts for him. 

[Jackie Lee]

Speaking of the D-line

 

[Dragoon11]

On 11/7/2022 at 7:18 PM, mc52beast said:

I don’t see where Burns has earned a payday like many think we will have to give him. He gets handled in the run game and often misses easy TFL’s. 
 

Unlike guys like Peppers, Luke, TD and others who would put the D on their back and take over games I can’t remember talking much about Burns ever taking over games. Am I wrong?

You're not wrong AT ALL! This is what I have said as well. Burns is not a game changer, someone who changes the momentum. At least not to this point. During Peppers rookie season the Panthers were pretty bad. Panthers had Rodney Pete as the starting QB and finished 1-16 the year before. Peppers had an IMMEDIATE impact, he had 12 sacks, 5 forced fumbles, 1 interception, and was awarded rookie of the year. You could tell from the get go that he was a true impact player. Was John Fox's first year and the Panthers improved to 7-9.

Now I get it... Peppers was a generational talent. But, for a team to offer two firsts and a second rounder... that's almost saying Burns is the same thing. I'm sorry but I just don't see Burns impacting that much on the defensive side of the ball. I'm not saying he's bad... he gets in on a lot of plays. I just need to see WAY more disruptiveness with him. All that speed has a weight trade off. I think he needs to gain about 15-20 more pounds, then maybe we'll see that. the potential is there. Problem is... BIG dudes are fast too in the NFL.

I think the Panthers should have taken the bait, but maybe Burns will become THAT player... I sure hope so. I like Brian Burns!!

[Dragoon11]

On 11/8/2022 at 7:47 AM, theinstrumental said:

Guys, he is an exceptional pass rusher and he is 24 years old, let's stop complaining about the imperfections in his game. He's worth paying. (If you're not going to trade him, which they obviously should have done.)

I think some people are missing the point here... it's not that he isn't talented, it's the fact that the Panthers were offered 2 first round picks and a second round pick. That's other teams OVER valuing Burns RIGHT NOW as if he's an all-world DE. He may very well become that, but he's not there YET and the Panthers NEED those first round picks! Heck, even the second round pick. Panthers should have taken the deal. Was a crazy good deal!!

Edited November 10, 2022 by Dragoon11

[Aussie Tank]

9 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Remember when John Elway was middling at best and then won two Super bowls late in his career. He is in the hall of fame based on those Superbowls late in his career. As for max contracts we don't know what we will pay and may not until the end of 2023. So all this max contracts talk is way premature at this point.

We’re talking max contracts because Burns has all the leverage now. Comparing QBs and pass rushers to end of career play is comparing apples to oranges. 

[Jon Snow]

7 hours ago, Aussie Tank said:

We’re talking max contracts because Burns has all the leverage now. Comparing QBs and pass rushers to end of career play is comparing apples to oranges. 

Actually, I hope he does want a big contract.  One so large the team can't pay him. Burns is so overrated by this fan base it's ridiculous. 

I hope the next coach trades his ass for whatever we can get next season. 

[panthers55]

17 hours ago, Aussie Tank said:

We’re talking max contracts because Burns has all the leverage now. Comparing QBs and pass rushers to end of career play is comparing apples to oranges. 

Franchise tag says he doesn't have all the leverage since we don't have to apply until 2024.

[mrcompletely11]

8 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Franchise tag says he doesn't have all the leverage since we don't have to apply until 2024.

2 things:

 You ready to pay this dude a top 5 salary and secondly its in our best interest now to extend him in the off season as we are up against the cap next season.  In regards to his negotiations he holds all the cards.

[MHS831]

9 hours ago, Pakmeng said:

Exactky. They decide to run at him and they have huge success.

He is 24.  Coach him up.  It is not like you cannot teach run defense.

[panthers55]

21 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

2 things:

 You ready to pay this dude a top 5 salary and secondly its in our best interest now to extend him in the off season as we are up against the cap next season.  In regards to his negotiations he holds all the cards.

We will likely try and resign him  because we can use the cap relief in 2023 but not at a king's ransom. And since he is already signed for 2023 he doesn't have all the leverage. We don't have to do anything and his 16 million contract for 2023 isn't that outrageous.

[Peon Awesome]

The problem is that good pass rushers are one of the toughest players to find. It's rare to get one outside of the top 10 in the draft, and they almost never make it to free agency unless they've got other red flags, get old or have major injury concerns. It's like having a good qb. It's why teams with an above average qb pretty much have no choice but to pay them $45+ million per year now even though probably only 3 or 4 qbs are truly worth that. Did Arizona really want to give that much to Kyler Murray? Unfortunately you're stuck overpaying your good pass rushers. I'm honestly not opposed to trading Burns next year before the deadline if we get another great offer. But you're doing it at a risk that you probably won't replace him and may waste valuable picks trying. Gotta have a lot of faith on your gm/scouring department.

[mrcompletely11]

12 hours ago, Peon Awesome said:

The problem is that good pass rushers are one of the toughest players to find. It's rare to get one outside of the top 10 in the draft, and they almost never make it to free agency unless they've got other red flags, get old or have major injury concerns. It's like having a good qb. It's why teams with an above average qb pretty much have no choice but to pay them $45+ million per year now even though probably only 3 or 4 qbs are truly worth that. Did Arizona really want to give that much to Kyler Murray? Unfortunately you're stuck overpaying your good pass rushers. I'm honestly not opposed to trading Burns next year before the deadline if we get another great offer. But you're doing it at a risk that you probably won't replace him and may waste valuable picks trying. Gotta have a lot of faith on your gm/scouring department.

It’s not rare to find a good pass rusher outside the top 10.  The fug are you talking about?

Edited November 12, 2022 by mrcompletely11

[jayboogieman]

No, Burns is not worth the contract he is going to get. He's empty stats. None of his 8-9 sacks a year adds to the win column in a meaningful way. The Panthers should have taken the trade.