Wilks Set This Team Back

[Ja Rhule]

NBC said it correctly months ago… Tepper is afraid to pull a plug on full rebuild and he got us into Browns territory.

[SmokinwithWilly]

20 hours ago, d-dave said:

 

Given the drafting pedigree of this team, would you rather have Brian Burns or 2-4 players who will not be as good as he is now?  This year, the Rams suck so that traded draft pick is looking good.  What about in 24-25?  I think the Rams bounce back.  Look at what happened when they put Baker in there?  So at best I imagine those picks are middle first round, or later if they go back to the playoffs.

 

I'd still rather have the picks and salary. Hassan Reddick cast 15m per year and does what Burns does. That's not saying Burns is bad or not talented or anything of the sort. For a team in a rebuild, with a new coaching staff, that 25-30m estimated, plus 3 2nds this year, 2 1sts the following 2 years is a lot to work with. You may get a player of Burns talent in the draft, you may not.

It also needs to be considered that it may take 2-3 years to be competitive since we don't have a franchise QB yet unless you believe Sam is the answer. So maybe half his contract is during a competitive time for the franchise. 

It's all dependent on how you see the team and it's future. I'd like to be able to keep Burns, but not for the price I think he's going to command. I think the team could benefit more from using the picks and salary wisely than what Burns alone brings. 

Of course that all depends on if we get it right starting with the HC. 

[PanthersGTI]

It has been said before but I think it holds true. Rivera was a more likeable John Fox, Fox 2.0. Wilks seems to be Rivera 1.1. I think just as fans we want NFL experienced coaching that brings something new. We are desperate for it. Probably what got us excited for Rhule in the first place. 

[Panthera onca]

Wilks had his chance and blew it by playing scared. Not going for it on those two 4th and less than one chances was coaching malpractice. He had to know that winning that game was his chance at the full time gig. You gotta shoot your shot in that situation and do everything possible to win.

[grimesgoat]

16 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I was fine going for the playoffs once we had a shot and I was damn sure rooting to beat Tampa, but not trading Burns was dumb. Has nothing to do with Burns but cap space wise, getting rid of Burns have you enough money in FA to basically replace Burns (Reddick plus Corbett as an example) and then two 1sts and a 2nd. People keep talking about ooh, what if we didn’t get a Burn, but they don’t acknowledge the chance that we blow away his value. Rams are 5-11 so pick 37/38 in 2023 and a high probability of a top 10/15 pick in both 2024 and 2025. What if we hit on all 3 and get two solid FAs? We are a team on the compete for a title level with decent QB play. We had a chance to be great while our division is still mediocre.

I agree with you in that I probably would have made the trade. 

But the scenario you paint is the rosiest possible and far from likely at that time.  At the trade deadline, Rams were 3-4 and still had a healthy Stafford and Kupp.  Adding Burns and everyone stays healthy probably means Rams win 10-11 games and are picking mid-to-late 20s.  While it might be possible to draft someone of Burns' caliber in that range, we'd have to get really lucky.  And we only free up 16m in 2023.  Finding a guy as good as Burns on the open market would likely cost 25m per year. 

In my opinion, Reddick is not a viable alternative/comparison.  Reddick is a LB.  Weights 230.  Burns, while light at 250, is definitely a DE.  I don't consider that an apples to apples comparison, and LBs will almost always be cheaper that traditional DEs.

[Zaximus]

Let's be honest, the worst thing to happen was not taking those picks for Burns.  By far, the dumbest thing we did.  It's not even close to me.   That isn't Wilks' fault though.  

Would I have liked a better pick?  Sure, but it's not going to doom us picking at #9 but those picks for Burns.... sure would have helped.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Zaximus

[Zaximus]

12 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

I agree with you in that I probably would have made the trade. 

But the scenario you paint is the rosiest possible and far from likely at that time.  At the trade deadline, Rams were 3-4 and still had a healthy Stafford and Kupp.  Adding Burns and everyone stays healthy probably means Rams win 10-11 games and are picking mid-to-late 20s.  While it might be possible to draft someone of Burns' caliber in that range, we'd have to get really lucky.  And we only free up 16m in 2023.  Finding a guy as good as Burns on the open market would likely cost 25m per year. 

In my opinion, Reddick is not a viable alternative/comparison.  Reddick is a LB.  Weights 230.  Burns, while light at 250, is definitely a DE.  I don't consider that an apples to apples comparison, and LBs will almost always be cheaper that traditional DEs.

Na the Rams were looking pretty dreadful at the time and Stafford's injury was pretty well known.  That team was leaking at that point.  I don't think anyone expected them to win that many games at that point.  I don't think anyone knew how BAD it would get, but I think it was pretty obvious they would at least be mid picks.  The worst part is having to pay Burns now, with him having all the leverage, and us knowing he isn't a difference maker and disappears when you need him most.

[Carl Spackler]

56 minutes ago, PanthersGTI said:

It has been said before but I think it holds true. Rivera was a more likeable John Fox, Fox 2.0. Wilks seems to be Rivera 1.1. I think just as fans we want NFL experienced coaching that brings something new. We are desperate for it. Probably what got us excited for Rhule in the first place. 

I actually don't give a fug about what the coach can or can't supposedly do, or whether he coaches offense, defense or special teams. I want to win.

I do think a lot of people on here would rather lose 47-38 with an offensive coach than win 21-17 with a defensive one.

[grimesgoat]

15 minutes ago, Panthera onca said:

Wilks had his chance and blew it by playing scared. Not going for it on those two 4th and less than one chances was coaching malpractice. He had to know that winning that game was his chance at the full time gig. You gotta shoot your shot in that situation and do everything possible to win.

Coaching malpractice?  I'd argue it would be malpractice to go for it.

4 and 1's are converted about 70%.  

4th and 1 #1:  we are up 7-0 in the first quarter on our own 42 and a QB sneak just failed on 3 and 1.  Why would the odds increase on 4th and 1.  You can pin them deep with your pro bowl kicker or possibly shift momentum and bring the crowd into the game.  Gotta punt that one.  Still a lot of football left to play.

4th and 1 #2:  we are up 14-0 in the second quarter, again at our own 42, with about 3 minutes left.  Our defense is pitching a shutout.  The only thing TB has going is their strong Defensive line.  Again, why give TB a short field up 14-0 with 3 minutes left until halftime?  Pin them deep.

Hindsight is 20-20.  But rolling the dice on your own side of the field and giving the other team/crowd something to get excited about was not the smart play.  The problem was not a lack of aggressiveness.  The problem was the 63-yard bomb thrown over the head of our 4th string CB.

 

[countryboi]

Tanking is for losers, everyone single one of these guys have a job to do. No one is trying to lose their job because the fans want them to Tank

Edited January 3, 2023 by countryboi

[TheMaulClaw]

Wilks did a great job.  Wilks didn't ruin this season, in fact he made it bearable.  We have had a lot high draft picks lately, it hasn't made a difference.  This game falls at the feat of Fitterer.  He traded CMAC way too soon, and the CJ Henderson trade is a nightmare.  

[Zaximus]

27 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Coaching malpractice?  I'd argue it would be malpractice to go for it.

4 and 1's are converted about 70%.  

4th and 1 #1:  we are up 7-0 in the first quarter on our own 42 and a QB sneak just failed on 3 and 1.  Why would the odds increase on 4th and 1.  You can pin them deep with your pro bowl kicker or possibly shift momentum and bring the crowd into the game.  Gotta punt that one.  Still a lot of football left to play. - TOM BRADY and basically a playoff game.  Banged up secondary that everyone knows will give up points eventually.

4th and 1 #2:  we are up 14-0 in the second quarter, again at our own 42, with about 3 minutes left.  Our defense is pitching a shutout.  The only thing TB has going is their strong Defensive line.  Again, why give TB a short field up 14-0 with 3 minutes left until halftime?  Pin them deep. - TOM BRADY and banged up secondary

Hindsight is 20-20.  But rolling the dice on your own side of the field and giving the other team/crowd something to get excited about was not the smart play.  The problem was not a lack of aggressiveness.  The problem was the 63-yard bomb thrown over the head of our 4th string CB.

 

 

[grimesgoat]

21 minutes ago, Zaximus said:

Na the Rams were looking pretty dreadful at the time and Stafford's injury was pretty well known.  That team was leaking at that point.  I don't think anyone expected them to win that many games at that point.  I don't think anyone knew how BAD it would get, but I think it was pretty obvious they would at least be mid picks.  The worst part is having to pay Burns now, with him having all the leverage, and us knowing he isn't a difference maker and disappears when you need him most.

The trade deadline was November 1.  They lost to SF on October 30, so negotiations would have taken place prior to that game.  So at the time, Fitt is looking at a team that was 3-3 with losses against Buffalo, Dallas, and at SF.  Stafford was healthy and he'd just beat us, going 26-33 for 253.  Definitely didn't look slowed in that game.  McVay is one of the best coaches in the league - a collapse was simply not imaginable.

And we still don't know where those picks will be in 2024 and 2025.  Hard to know for certain in late October of 2022.

Again - I'm with you - I would have done the deed.  But the jury is still out on where those picks will be.  Fitt played it conservative - assuming they would be late firsts.  Late first round is usually not a place you find a Brian Burns.  The only 2 DEs ahead of Burns in sacks are Bosa and Garrett, who went 2nd and 1st overall in their respective drafts.  I don't think people appreciate how special Burns is.

[grimesgoat]

3 minutes ago, Zaximus said:

 

agree to disagree.