S2 Cognitive test points to NFL Success

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, Tbe said:

 

Last year, only one QB scored as well as Purdy. I wonder who it was. Doubt it was Corral.

My money is on either Howell or Zappe. 

Wonderlic scores:

Zappe - 35

Howell - 34

Corral - 15

[Luciu5]

19 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

My money is on either Howell or Zappe. 

Wonderlic scores:

Zappe - 35

Howell - 34

Corral - 15

I don't think there would be any correlation of Wonderlic scores to this test. Like, completely irrelevant. That's like saying someone isn't going to do well on their vision test because they bombed their SAT.

[LinvilleGorge]

22 minutes ago, Luciu5 said:

I don't think there would be any correlation of Wonderlic scores to this test. Like, completely irrelevant. That's like saying someone isn't going to do well on their vision test because they bombed their SAT.

They're both cognitive tests. There will be strong correlation.

[electro's horse]

4 hours ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

Looking forward to the first person to try and discredit this test for whatever reason.

Like from a neurological perspective?

wouldn’t be too hard. 

[electro's horse]

So to give you an example, comparative tests in neurology or whatever can take up to multiple days (in the case of neuropsych batteries) and have to be reviewed by someone with substantial experience grading them, if not phd lvl training. 

this is from their own website

GET YOUR S2 SCORE REPORT

Results are instantly revealed in a detailed report featuring the individual scores of the athlete’s abilities – analyzing each of their strengths and weaknesses, along with their overall S2 Score.

Nothing makes me trust something like a report that’s both detailed AND instantaneous. 
 

everything about this sounds like the kind of poo at the mall that tells you what kind of insole to buy. 
 

https://www.s2cognition.com/how-s2-works

[electro's horse]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They're both cognitive tests. There will be strong correlation.

the wonderlic is not a test of cognition. It’s just a bunch of random facts. The SAT is also not a test of cognition and has come under loads of criticism to the point that many schools are just dumping it. 
 

cognition tests you’re ability to receive, process, and utilize information across different modalities. Examples of this would be visuospatial (significant for Alzheimer’s) fluency, verbal comprehension, story recall, recall under stress etc. obviously the wonderlic does none of that. 
 

this s2 company has two neuropsych guys on the board which makes me think they’re taking elements of tests like that, or visually evoked potentials or whatever and trying to find a correlation. And eventually they’ll start selling this as a way to train highschool athletes because that’s where the money is. 
 

but there aren’t any peer reviewed studies for this and everything right now is very small sample size. This just seems like SPORTS SCIENCE stuff

wonderlic is also poo btw

[LinvilleGorge]

12 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

the wonderlic is not a test of cognition. It’s just a bunch of random facts. The SAT is also not a test of cognition and has come under loads of criticism to the point that many schools are just dumping it. 
 

cognition tests you’re ability to receive, process, and utilize information across different modalities. Examples of this would be visuospatial (significant for Alzheimer’s) fluency, verbal comprehension, story recall, recall under stress etc. obviously the wonderlic does none of that. 
 

this s2 company has two neuropsych guys on the board which makes me think they’re taking elements of tests like that, or visually evoked potentials or whatever and trying to find a correlation. And eventually they’ll start selling this as a way to train highschool athletes because that’s where the money is. 
 

but there aren’t any peer reviewed studies for this and everything right now is very small sample size. This just seems like SPORTS SCIENCE stuff

wonderlic is also poo btw

Every test does the same thing at the end of the day. It measures how well you perform on that test. LOL!

[Luciu5]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Every test does the same thing at the end of the day. It measures how well you perform on that test. LOL!

The complaints about the wonderlic, at least for certain positions, there is little correlation between scores and future performance. It's common for great QBs to have poor scores.

S2 releasing the data would help quite a bit. How common is it for low S2 scorers to be great QBs? That is very important to know. By the snippets posted, this test does seem to show correlation between test results and ability. Without knowing the full scope of their study however, it's hard to say how anecdotal the data is.

[glenwo2]

Saquon Barkley scored an 18 on the Wonderlic and he's one hell of a Running Back.

 

So yeah....the Wonderlic scores are garbage.

[MHS831]

I have always said this, because we measure the wrong stuff.  For example, a Safety has a 4.4 40 time but takes .43 seconds to read a play and begin reacting to it.  Another player has a 4.6 40 time but reacts in .22 seconds.  Who is faster?  This does not take into account that the guy with the faster reaction time might also "gain speed" in terms of projected angles, calculated gambles, etc.

In all likelihood, the first Safety is a first or second rounder.   The second guy goes day 3.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, glenwo2 said:

Saquon Barkley scored an 18 on the Wonderlic and he's one hell of a Running Back.

 

So yeah....the Wonderlic scores are garbage.

Frank Gore was a helluva RB and I honestly don't know how he ever graduated HS based on his interviews. RB is probably the least cerebral position in football. It's why rookies are often impact players.

[csx]

11 hours ago, electro's horse said:

So to give you an example, comparative tests in neurology or whatever can take up to multiple days (in the case of neuropsych batteries) and have to be reviewed by someone with substantial experience grading them, if not phd lvl training. 

this is from their own website

GET YOUR S2 SCORE REPORT

Results are instantly revealed in a detailed report featuring the individual scores of the athlete’s abilities – analyzing each of their strengths and weaknesses, along with their overall S2 Score.

Nothing makes me trust something like a report that’s both detailed AND instantaneous. 
 

everything about this sounds like the kind of poo at the mall that tells you what kind of insole to buy. 
 

https://www.s2cognition.com/how-s2-works

The guys that founded the company are PhDs in cognitive neuroscience and neuropsychology

[amcoolio]

I figure that Young and Stroud are both high performers of this test

It will be very sad if we don't get either of them

[rayzor]

https://www.s2cognition.com/post/cognitive-skills-separate-top-nfl-qbs

really good explanation of S2 in regards to QBs, especially in distinguishing between the wonderlic (IQ test) and S2 (cognitive testing).

Quote

we performed a Pearson's correlation to examine the relationship between the S2 Overall score and CPR [Career Passing Rating. CPR takes into account completion percentage, touchdown percentage, interception percentage, and yards per attempt]. The analysis revealed an r-value of 0.536 (p = .002), which is a moderately positive correlation. Using R2 generated by a regression model, the Overall S2 Score accounts for 28.7% of the Career Passer Rating. That's well over a quarter of CPR can be explained or predicted by the S2 Overall Score.

To put this in perspective, Ayush Batra at bestballstats.com examined the relationships between physical characteristics and college performance stats with NFL Passer Rating (read the article HERE). College completion percentage was the best predictor of CPR in the NFL (r = 0.368, which explains 13.5% of performance) and college interception percentage was second on the list (r = 0.358, which explains 12.8% of performance). These findings aren't terribly surprising, given there will likely be a fair amount of shared variance between college performance and pro performance, but not a one-to-one translation.

Interestingly, there was very little relationship with QB height. QBs 6'2" and shorter actually have a CPR 3 points higher than QBs 6'3" and taller. Our own independent statistical analysis examining the relationship between height and CPR confirmed Batra’s original findings. A Pearson's correlation revealed an inverse relationship between height and CPR (r-value of -.185, p = .178), suggesting shorter QBs have slightly higher CPRs.

We also thought it would be interesting to examine the NFL's version of intelligence, the Wonderlic, to see if there was any relation to performance. We've certainly heard NFL executives complain about it being meaningless to performance, but when we looked in the literature, there hasn't been much data published to support this claim. We ran a Pearson's correlation analysis to examine the relationship between Wonderlic score and CPR. The results revealed an r-value of .027 (p = .449). Using R2 provided by a regression model, Wonderlic score accounts for less than .01% of CPR. These results highlight the difference between IQ or intellect and cognition. IQ, as measured by the Wonderlic, may tell you how that athlete would fare in a school setting, while cognition, as measured by the S2 Overall Score, will tell you how the athlete will perform on the field when making split-second, in-game decisions.