Statistics: There is no correlation btwn QB height and batted passes

[CPcavedweller]

2 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

I’m not worried about batted balls as much as missing open reads through lack of vision, not making the pass because the lane isn’t there, not being able to play under center, and of course durability. I just keep thinking of how great Baker was in college vs NFL. His size seemed to limit him more than expected at the next level. 

Bu..bu..but Baker is Baker. He has a photograohic memory, a stronger arm than Young, good movement skills, etc.

I see Young as slightly better than Baker just because his release is quicker but all of his balls float. He can't Rope anything in beyond 10 yards past the LOS and making those cross field throws, on time, is going to be hard for him.

Stroud makes those outs and digs look easy from 40 yards out. His footwork is perfect. He makes the right reads pre-snap. We don't need the most vocal guy. We need a guy who can execute and Reich hasn't had someone who can place the ball like Stroud since Luck. Obviously Luck could run but that ended up being his downfall as well.

And for people who sag you need someone who can create. Tom Brady went to 10 Super Bowls. He may be the least athletic guy who ever played in the NFL. Stroud has the same kind of ball placement as Brady, Luck, Burrow, etc. If it's there mentally as well, you take him and don't look back, especially with Caldwell, MCcown, and Reich.

[Hugor Hill]

I count 6 former Panthers on that list.

[CPcavedweller]

3 hours ago, Jackie Lee said:

Yeah if I'm an NFL team I force Bryce to throw in the pocket giving him no open lanes. Stroud is much harder to game plan for because he will have an answer for every defensive scheme you present. 

That's the thing, what worked for Bryce in college, even in the SEC, may not translate. Russell Wilson was a great pocket passer at NC State and Wisconsin. He scrambled when he needed to but he wasn't out there running around in circles like Bryce tends to do.

Kyler Murray is a baseball player and his speed and throwing motion, along with initial velocity and spin rate, show that. 

Young is neither of those. I'd say his comp is closer to Doug Flutie but no one wants to admit it. He's a small, good college QB on the most talented roster in college football. Put Stroud down in Alabama with Bill O'Brian and I think Stroud still throws 40 touchdowns and for 4,000 yards. I think Levis would've even put up better numbers than Bryce at Alabama. Look at what he did in 2021 at freaking Kentucky.

[PootieNunu]

Dont care about the batted balls, it happened to Baker so much because our offense was dog poo.

I just dont want a smaller version of Russell Wilson. He doesnt have a super bowl ring without one of the best D's of all time and the horseshoe tied to a rabbits foot stuck up his ass. 

 

[KatsAzz]

It should be obvious that if Bryce Youngs height wasn't a concern and  a real issue, we wouldn't be discussing it right now.    

[heel31ok]

15 hours ago, Aussie Tank said:

The same linebackers that came from the SEC? 

The same lbs on every team he will face...

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Risk/Reward

Choosing an NFL QB is similar to making any investment.

While there is an element of risk in most investments, taking unnecessary risks often leads to disaster.

CJ appears to have all the skills necessary to lead the Panthers to their ultimate goal and w/a lower level of risk.  

So, why would the Panthers take on more risk than necessary with a different QB selection?

[WarHeel]

So the Panthers have rostered the top 3 QBs with the highest batted pass rate.

 

Sounds about right…

[Saca312]

20 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

CJ appears to have all the skills necessary to lead the Panthers to their ultimate goal and w/a lower level of risk.  

I like CJ Stroud, but there is a risk factor in that he needs optimal conditions to succeed. His ability to play out of structure is subpar, with limited tape showing he can do so. His pressure QBR is about 70%, vs Bryce Young's appx 95%.

Young's ability to maneuver in the pocket and out of structure is uncanny and without doubt one of the best in the class.

But, then you have CJ's arm strength which is superior to Young's, so question if Young can make the zips in the short - intermediate range is valid. 

Nevertheless, both have talent and their demerits, but still both would be worthy of the #1 selection. I'm indifferent on the direction the Panthers take and trust their evaluation whether it be Stroud or Young.

Only way I'd be mad is if it were neither of those two...lol.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Saca312

[The Huddler]

13 hours ago, bababoey said:

Except Wilson out weights Young by 25 to 30 lbs.

maybe now that hes an old sack of potatoes 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

2 minutes ago, The Huddler said:

maybe now that hes an old sack of potatoes 

As Russell aged he became heavier and slower.

Slower Russell was less elusive.

Less elusive Russell was less effective.

Russell's style of play simply doesn't age well in the NFL.

A cautionary tale for the Panthers?

[Wes21]

21 hours ago, Rags said:

However, I 100% believe it does effect how well you see over the pocket. Which is my bigger concern. 

QBs have to work thru windows.  Many of the lineman are taller than the QB.  Tom Brady confirmed that even he has to work thru windows and not "over the line."

I find the chart interesting.  Each QB is unique in their skill set, delivery, decision making and the offenses that they run.  Some offenses simply lead to more batted balls than others.  However, I do see a little bit of something.  I have heard that there is generally a sweet spot when it comes to being a QB that is somewhere around 6'-2" and 6'-3".  Its just tall enough to buck the downsides of being short and just enough to buck the downside of being tall.  Its interesting to note that the super tall QBs on the far right have a higher than normal batted ball rate in 3 out of 4 cases.

[Wes21]

32 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

I like CJ Stroud, but there is a risk factor in that he needs optimal conditions to succeed. His ability to play out of structure is subpar

The film disagrees with this.  One thing that has come to light for me rewatching all of the games is that one of Stroud's strengths is to process information quickly and efficiently, which allows him to execute more plays "in structure" than Bryce Young would under the same circumstances.  And when the play reaches a point where its impossible to stay within structure, Stroud shows on film that he is fully capable of moving effectively AND making accurate passes on the move.

I thought Bryce Young's ability to play out of structure was a feature of his game.  The film says otherwise.  Playing out of structure IS his game.  He literally turns down open throws within structure to run around out of structure.  If you could create an alternate universe where you dropped CJ Stroud at QB and then Bryce Young at QB to run the exact same play against the exact same defense, the 2 guys would often make it look completely different.  CJ has the ability to make it look like the receiver was open and the pass blocking was on point.  So of course it was a completion, it was easy.  Byce can take that same play and make it look like none of his receivers are open and that the pass protection was bad, so he had to improvise and make a heroic play.  Or as I said in another thread...CJ has a knack for making things look easy while Bryce has a knack for making things look harder.

 

[bababoey]

7 hours ago, The Huddler said:

maybe now that hes an old sack of potatoes 

Wilson weighted 205 - 210 when he came into the league.  Bryce Young. according to reports, played at 185 - 190 last year