Jaycee Horn

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

9 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

So Fitts should be fired for drafting a shut down corner. 

Not a take I would have expected even from the huddle. 

oh yeah he's a shut down corner alright. he's shut down most of the year

[SmokinwithWilly]

29 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

We needed a corner. If he wasn't on the roster,  we'd need another corner.  So your argument that he didn't fill a need just doesn't hold a drop of water. 

ThIs in the NFL.  He didn't have a history of injuries, so there was zero red flags.  

Just seems to me you and others were just waiting for any injury to happen to harp more on him. I find that quite amusing that CB's often struggle with minor injuries. That's what this one is. A soft tissue injury that is extremely common throughout the league when real games start getting played. 

It does suck not to have such a great talent on the field. That's aways the case when a stud player gets hurt.  Once again this is the NFL. 

Perhaps you should watch table tennis instead.  

Id argue we needed a LT more than CB. Slater was sitting there available. The Lions crushed my dreams at 7, but we had been bandaiding that position for far too long. Having your LT get spun more than a merri go round is what this team had already been dealing with since Gross retired. JMO, but that was a far bigger need. 

[KSpan]

22 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

We needed a corner. If he wasn't on the roster,  we'd need another corner.  So your argument that he didn't fill a need just doesn't hold a drop of water. 

ThIs in the NFL.  He didn't have a history of injuries, so there was zero red flags.  

Just seems to me you and others were just waiting for any injury to happen to harp more on him. I find that quite amusing that CB's often struggle with minor injuries. That's what this one is. A soft tissue injury that is extremely common throughout the league when real games start getting played. 

It does suck not to have such a great talent on the field. That's aways the case when a stud player gets hurt.  Once again this is the NFL. 

Perhaps you should watch table tennis instead.  

Nowhere did I say they didn't need a corner. They did. However, the team needed offensive linemen even worse, particularly after they took an entire draft's worth of defense the year before that included 4 DBs. Slater was there. He should have been the pick. Pass rush can mask a secondary, but much harder to mask a bad line. See: 2013 Panthers.

Also, nowhere did I say that he was injury prone in college, because he wasn't. I said it was unfortunate how it is turning out, a reality where he has missed half of possible games and was already hurt in camp. It's unfortunately not a surprise at this point, regardless of what a given injury is.

Regarding Fitterer, I said the team is accountable, not him specifically. I suspect the pick was heavily influenced, if not outright made, by Rhule. The objectively and predictably poor free agent OL signings of that offseason had Rhule's fingerprints all over them and he likely felt he could lean further into the defense. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 minute ago, KSpan said:

Nowhere did I say they didn't need a corner. They did. However, the team needed offensive linemen even worse, particularly after they took an entire draft's worth of defense the year before that included 4 DBs. Slater was there. He should have been the pick. Pass rush can mask a secondary, but much harder to mask a bad line. See: 2013 Panthers.

Also, nowhere did I say that he was injury prone in college, because he wasn't. I said it was unfortunate how it is turning out, a reality where he has missed half of possible games and was already hurt in camp. It's unfortunately not a surprise at this point, regardless of what a given injury is.

Regarding Fitterer, I said the team is accountable, not him specifically. I suspect the pick was heavily influenced, if not outright made, by Rhule. The objectively and predictably poor free agent OL signings of that offseason had Rhule's fingerprints all over them and he likely felt he could lean further into the defense. 

Still cant believe Rhule said he didn't have him as an NFL tackle after being 2nd team all pro his rookie season. 

[pantherclaw]

8 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Id argue we needed a LT more than CB. Slater was sitting there available. The Lions crushed my dreams at 7, but we had been bandaiding that position for far too long. Having your LT get spun more than a merri go round is what this team had already been dealing with since Gross retired. JMO, but that was a far bigger need. 

I would have loved Slater. 

Not a single draft goes the way I'd had picked. Hindsight is always 20/20. 

I'm still not mad at the pick. Never will be either. Horn's talent is undeniable.  So I can see why he was the pick. 

 

[pantherclaw]

9 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Nowhere did I say they didn't need a corner. They did. However, the team needed offensive linemen even worse, particularly after they took an entire draft's worth of defense the year before that included 4 DBs. Slater was there. He should have been the pick. Pass rush can mask a secondary, but much harder to mask a bad line. See: 2013 Panthers.

Also, nowhere did I say that he was injury prone in college, because he wasn't. I said it was unfortunate how it is turning out, a reality where he has missed half of possible games and was already hurt in camp. It's unfortunately not a surprise at this point, regardless of what a given injury is.

Regarding Fitterer, I said the team is accountable, not him specifically. I suspect the pick was heavily influenced, if not outright made, by Rhule. The objectively and predictably poor free agent OL signings of that offseason had Rhule's fingerprints all over them and he likely felt he could lean further into the defense. 

The team is also accountable for every missed pick on a talented player. 

This will never end. 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

1 hour ago, TheCasillas said:

what do you mean? do you have examples?

Cameron Heyward of the Steelers and JK Dobbins of the Ravens are two that come to mind without looking anything up

[TheCasillas]

2 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Cameron Heyward of the Steelers and JK Dobbins of the Ravens are two that come to mind without looking anything up

JK Dobbins tore his achilles... it was announced during the game, but so was Horn's injury. What are you looking for exactly?

Steelers shared today that Heyward had a groin injury and is expected to miss weeks. i am sure once we know the severity of the hammy ... we will get a timeline. Groins are far worse than hammies, it was probably easy for them to share that, but they didnt give a specific timeline  

[SmokinwithWilly]

21 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

I would have loved Slater. 

Not a single draft goes the way I'd had picked. Hindsight is always 20/20. 

I'm still not mad at the pick. Never will be either. Horn's talent is undeniable.  So I can see why he was the pick. 

 

That's the really sad part is it wasn't a hindsight pick. LT had been a huge need for years and Slater was an absolute beast at NW. I always thought he and Sewell were 2 of the safest picks in the draft. 

I think the thing that frustrates me the most is if you asked me to describe our team building philosophy, I'm not sure I could come up with any direction. It really feels like throw it at the wall and see what sticks. 

[pantherj]

Otah, when healthy, was the best run blocking RT I have ever seen. Period. His back went out and he just couldn't do it anymore. He looked HoF level at run blocking. He would just swallow and maul anyone in front of him. Just amazing.

Horn is a very precise, quick, and fast CB who just can't stay healthy. He's the best CB we've had since Josh Norman or Bradberry, but what does it matter if his body keeps failing him? It's not his fault, but he's going to have to settle for less money if this continues. We can't pay a premium for someone who rarely plays.

Edited September 12, 2023 by pantherj

[Mr Mojo Risin]

36 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

JK Dobbins tore his achilles... it was announced during the game, but so was Horn's injury. What are you looking for exactly?

Steelers shared today that Heyward had a groin injury and is expected to miss weeks. i am sure once we know the severity of the hammy ... we will get a timeline. Groins are far worse than hammies, it was probably easy for them to share that, but they didnt give a specific timeline  

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-news-roundup-latest-league-updates-from-monday-sept-11

 

You can read through this list and see how many injuries there were and how many of them were announced and had at least some news to offer. Ours is the only one "still being evaluated" and it seems like that is always the case

[Khyber53]

Injuries can and do happen to any and eventually every football player. 

Horn, though, seems to be really susceptible to injuries. Might be bad luck, might just be that he should have been a receiver instead of a DB. 

Either way, I feel bad for him. And I feel bad for us.

[KSpan]

1 hour ago, pantherclaw said:

The team is also accountable for every missed pick on a talented player. 

This will never end. 

No, this is a situation where it was a clear risky divergence from obvious need/largest benefit and it's now losing all ROI due to the injuries. If it was Slater that Carolina drafted and was getting hurt a la Otah it would still be unfortunate but the logic and basis of the pick would still have made it the right decision based on information at the time.

This is similar to them taking Fletcher instead of Trey Smith, where no one could say Smith would be as good as he is but it was absolutely a smarter pick than taking Fletcher even if Smith ended up flopping like Fletcher did. No hindsight needed.

[pantherclaw]

Like I said, there is no end to the missed picks. 

You can qualify this particular situation all you want to.