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If Penix is there at 33

Htarnation4.0

By Htarnation4.0,
in Carolina Panthers

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Shotgun Grand Master

Shotgun

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Posted
11 minutes ago, frankw said:

I don't see Tepper letting them take a QB before 2025. He has such a delicate ego and it's already badly bruised. We will have to endure another season of whatever this is.

Yep, anyone that would even suggest drafting a QB would get a drink thrown in their face.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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My main concern with Tepper is that his ego won't allow him to see that he's the problem. He probably thinks he's just made bad hires. He hasn't hired the right people to help him figure this football thing out. Once he has the right people in place to run with his analytics he'll be dominating the league as planned.

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Evans would help any QB. AT has over 1000 yards with Young throwing to him. Of course Evans would. Baker having talent and completely struggling here is my point. People keep wanting a quick fix. It’s like Tep thinking a rookie QB can play PG and make all these WRs look better. Mahomes is struggling (for Mahomes) with lesser WR talent and he has Kelce plus Rice has had a good rookie year. 

Adam Thielen is 8th in receptions and 100th in yards per reception. He's slow but that's ridiculous. That matches Bryce Young's YPA. Honestly Mike Evans would probably go Robby Anderson on the sidelines here and I would not blame him one bit.

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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14 minutes ago, frankw said:

Adam Thielen is 8th in receptions and 100th in yards per reception. He's slow but that's ridiculous. That matches Bryce Young's YPA. Honestly Mike Evans would probably go Robby Anderson on the sidelines here and I would not blame him one bit.

Again look at Baker here with Moore’s YAC and CMC’s YAC he was at 6.4 YPA. Better than Young sure, but he wasn’t a rookie and had two great YAC weapons that aren’t here anymore. Evans will adjust and not make those drops Chark made. Hell you or I could probably get Evans to 1000. Just lob it up and let me adjust. 
Regardless our roster has a looong way to go offensively and getting bad returns in the CMC and Moore trade set us back even further. To be clear this isn’t a pro Young argument. It’s a quit throwing QBs at the much bigger problem issue IMO. I’m all for grabbing Sanders, Leonard, or Ewers in 25 if Young keeps struggling with better talent around him. 

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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19 minutes ago, frankw said:

Adam Thielen is 8th in receptions and 100th in yards per reception. He's slow but that's ridiculous. That matches Bryce Young's YPA. Honestly Mike Evans would probably go Robby Anderson on the sidelines here and I would not blame him one bit.

Ehh, Theilen's only .3 YPR less than last year... While that is a decent chunk less he's been trending down for the last few years (12.5 -> 10.8 -> 10.3 ... Now 9.9). 

Evans would be doing worse than he is now for sure, but def still over 1k yards. I think Evans would make the catches Chark has been dropping and then some.  

I don't think Evans is a sideline distraction, is he? Tbh I don't follow the Bucks that well.

I mean Robby renamed himself to Chosen, which should tell us all we need to know about him.

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

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24 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Again look at Baker here with Moore’s YAC and CMC’s YAC he was at 6.4 YPA. Better than Young sure, but he wasn’t a rookie and had two great YAC weapons that aren’t here anymore. Evans will adjust and not make those drops Chark made. Hell you or I could probably get Evans to 1000. Just lob it up and let me adjust. 
Regardless our roster has a looong way to go offensively and getting bad returns in the CMC and Moore trade set us back even further. To be clear this isn’t a pro Young argument. It’s a quit throwing QBs at the much bigger problem issue IMO. I’m all for grabbing Sanders, Leonard, or Ewers in 25 if Young keeps struggling with better talent around him. 

Oh I concur 100% we need to actually build an offense and stop thinking we can just drop in a QB.

All I'm saying is while I like Bryce Young the person. This offense is seriously limited with him. Defenses know this as much as we do.

23 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Ehh, Theilen's only .3 YPR less than last year... While that is a decent chunk less he's been trending down for the last few years (12.5 -> 10.8 -> 10.3 ... Now 9.9). 

Evans would be doing worse than he is now for sure, but def still over 1k yards. I think Evans would make the catches Chark has been dropping and then some.  

I don't think Evans is a sideline distraction, is he? Tbh I don't follow the Bucks that well.

I mean Robby renamed himself to Chosen, which should tell us all we need to know about him.

Chark certainly has questionable hands but this is just a butt ugly offense. And honestly as bad as Chark has been. Bryce throws some wobbly ducks out there.

At the end of the day I think if we got to see a few more games of Andy Dalton we would be arguing we need less offensive pieces than we think. The mere mention of that will enrage certain people but that's where I'm at.

I was joking. Mike is a fiery kind of guy to a degree from what I've seen of his on field personality. I am honestly surprised we haven't had any blow ups with how awful this season has gone. Remember when DJ Moore publicly challenged our staff? Looks like he did himself a favor. I sincerely hope we can improve next year or the odds of locker room turmoil will increase substantially.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, frankw said:

Oh I concur 100% we need to actually build an offense and stop thinking we can just drop in a QB.

All I'm saying is while I like Bryce Young the person. This offense is seriously limited with him. Defenses know this as much as we do.

Chark certainly has questionable hands but this is just a butt ugly offense. And honestly as bad as Chark has been. Bryce throws some wobbly ducks out there.

At the end of the day I think if we got to see a few more games of Andy Dalton we would be arguing we need less offensive pieces than we think. The mere mention of that will enrage certain people but that's where I'm at.

I was joking. Mike is a fiery kind of guy to a degree from what I've seen of his on field personality. I am honestly surprised we haven't had any blow ups with how awful this season has gone. Remember when DJ Moore publicly challenged our staff? Looks like he did himself a favor. I sincerely hope we can improve next year or the odds of locker room turmoil will increase substantially.

oh for sure, lol, Bryce has thrown some terrible passes. no point in arguing which of them has been worse. Certainly Bryce is the bigger disappointment given the investment in him.

Fwiw I agree in principle on your Dalton comment but I think that we'd still see how bad the offense is, and that we are lacking in a true receiving threat. 

Things can turn around very quickly in the NFL with the right coaching and a couple key players (and notably, better QB play, how ever we achieve that), but with Fitterer looking to be safe, I don't think we need to worry about that happening.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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3 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Rivers definitely made it work. The negative is it takes longer for the ball to come out. It gets overlooked because his OL is top notch, but in the NFL every half a second counts. 

I remember watching Rivers in college and making the comment, "Well this will never work at the next level."

Well.....about that.......

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HardcoreHokie Mentor

HardcoreHokie

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2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

My main concern with Tepper is that his ego won't allow him to see that he's the problem. He probably thinks he's just made bad hires. He hasn't hired the right people to help him figure this football thing out. Once he has the right people in place to run with his analytics he'll be dominating the league as planned.

In 5 years he’s fired Rivera, Rhule, Wilks, Reich, Hurney, McCown, Staley…

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    • tukafan21
      Mini camp tweets

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      How am I all over the place?  I'm still saying that. I'm saying that Chark at his best and T-Mac right now, on the same team right now for the 2025 season, T-Mac would be ahead of him on the depth chart Week 1. Because in the same way everyone is saying, "T-Mac hasn't played a snap in the NFL yet", the very same is true to say, "nothing Chark did in his past matters moving forward" His peak was a 1,008 yard season where he was the only decent WR on a terrible team.  He didn't put up the 1k yard season because he was a great WR, it was because of how bad the rest of them on the team were. His stats aren't the same as his ability, and his ability was never all that good to begin with. Hell, most of this board agrees that T-Mac is our #1 right now, even if Thielen is Bryce's #1 option early in the saeson just because of the comfort level there, he's still just a slot safety valve and T-Mac is our #1. If you put peak Chark on the roster RIGHT NOW (even without T-Mac)... is anyone even putting him over Thielen, XL, or Coker going into this season? I'm honestly not sure many of us would consider him as such, because even at his best, he was just a JAG.  So if the same people who are okay with T-Mac being ahead of those guys right now, wouldn't put Chark above them, how can you in the same breath say Chark was better than T-Mac already is now?
    • LinvilleGorge
      Mini camp tweets

      By LinvilleGorge · Posted

      Dude... you're just all over the place. You're the one who said T-Mac is better right now than Chark was at his best.
    • tukafan21
      Mini camp tweets

      By tukafan21 · Posted

      When I say "average NFL WR", for me, that's comparing him to all WRs in the league during that season/span of time.  He was of course better than those #4-6 WR's that can't even get on the field, but talent/ability wise, he probably wasn't any better than a #3 WR for most NFL teams, he just happened to be on one of the teams in 2019 with even worse WR's so he put up solid stats for the season. Here's more or less how I'm looking at it. Take T-Mac right now and Chark at his best, put them on every NFL team at this very moment, and where would they fall on the depth chart come Week 1 (basically, the teams that don't put the rookies at #1 to "make them earn it in camp" don't count, it's projecting week 1 depth charts). T-Mac would be at worst the #2 WR on the majority of teams this season, (hell, he's likely our #1 at this very moment right now already), peak Chark would not.  Yes, T-Mac still has to prove himself at this level, but his current ability, even as a rookie who hasn't played a snap yet, would have him above Chark on any team's week 1 depth chart. Because again, you can't just fall back on "well Chark had a 1,000 yard season" and use that as the reason for having him above T-Mac.  As he didn't have that 1k yards because he was a beast, it was because he was the only halfway decent receiving option on a bad team that was always losing and passing the ball (the Jags had the 7th worst scoring differential that season).
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