Panthers Practice August 14th

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

I told myself to be patient, but I've seen too much already.  I'm holding out hope that the regular season week 1 will be a pleasant surprise.  But you know.  If it smells like poo outside the bathroom door, I wouldn't open it.  That's kinda where I'm at.

I doubt there is too many surprises week 1.  Hopefully the offense will look better than last year's and we see some sort of foundation for growth.  I wouldn't except anything too crazy that early.  

[Ricky Spanish]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

then its not valid IMO

The data is still valid, it's just not as granular as it could be. I took into account each type of play where the QB touches the ball (Passes, rushes, and Sacks) and calculated that against total turnovers. A more granular conclusion is that Bryce was more likely to turn the ball over when he's tackled than Sam, and Sam is more likely to turn the ball over when he attempts a pass than Bryce.

[PNW_PantherMan]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

I doubt there is too many surprises week 1.  Hopefully the offense will look better than last year's and we see some sort of foundation for growth.  I wouldn't except anything too crazy that early.  

For me, a pleasant surprise would be the offense making the defense adjust in the game.  Even if we lose and we can't consistently move the ball, or score TDs.

But if they're just birds on a fence like 5-10 yards out, and we can't do anything again... oh boy.

[mrcompletely11]

3 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I doubt there is too many surprises week 1.  Hopefully the offense will look better than last year's and we see some sort of foundation for growth.  I wouldn't except anything too crazy that early.  

If I was a gambling man I would put a lot of money on the Saints, especially if they sit young and the starters all preseason.  poo that is a lock if I have ever seen one, opened at 4.5 now at 5

Edited August 14, 2024 by mrcompletely11

[Navy_football]

10 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

If a qb can beat you deep the defense has to account for it.   To date Young hasnt shown he can do that consistently or even at all.  Defenses were simply sitting on the routes last year.  I mean poo man it wasnt a surprise we averaged 10 points a game last year for the last 10 games with Young throwing a whopping 4 tds in that span.  Coordinators figured his midget ass out. 

Do you factor in the dropped passes? some for TDs? some that would have put them in the RZ? Do you factor the lack of protection resulting in sacks? Do you factor in the drive killing penalties from the oline? Not to mention the changes at playcallers and coaching?

Not defending just saying there were A LOT of extenuating circumstances. I think the entire offense gets a mulligan. Bryce, Ickey, Mingo, etc.

Should have a much better understanding of what's going on by week 4.

[Wundrbread33]

Cam changed my thoughts on QB stats. I saw the media contort and misrepresent his statistics over the years, often completely leaving out his rushing production, making him look bad. 
 

End of the day, none of that mattered anyway. I never felt like he couldn’t move the ball down the field. That’s all that matters. Move the ball against a defense that doesn’t want that to happen, and allow your team to be in position to score. 
 

So the ultimate QB stat to me? Points per game. 
 

Can you lead/move/will your offense down the field? If so, the stats will come. 

[outlaw4]

...yep. We're well past talking about today's practice.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

The data is still valid, it's just not as granular as it could be. I took into account each type of play where the QB touches the ball (Passes, rushes, and Sacks) and calculated that against total turnovers. A more granular conclusion is that Bryce was more likely to turn the ball over when he's tackled than Sam, and Sam is more likely to turn the ball over when he attempts a pass than Bryce.

sure 100% I am just saying you cannot simply assign it as a rushing play for each sack, and by you I mean pfw. 

[Castavar]

1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

That's the whole point of the argument lol!  Were you not following along?  Conservative check down ball vs deeper/risky throws.  One will lead to more interceptions and that might not be a bad thing.  Especially if there is learning and adjustments going on.  I'm all for having the offense take some risks at the risk of more turnovers vs the conversative play we had last year.  

Bro, 10 ints while playing conservative is BAD! My point is he still managed to throw 10 picks and fumble 11 times PLAYING CONSERVATIVE! I can't even imagine once he starts attempting more risky (NFL) throws.

But I will agree with you that at this point, I have no problem going deep more and throwing more risky passes. Can come to a quicker conclusion on whether he's cut out to be an NFL QB or not.

 

[App Panther]

At some point Canales is going to tell Tepper that Bryce isn't it. Likely around mid-season. That will be a very interesting conversation.

[Icege]

No updates yet re: Dane's hammy but I'd err on the side of caution along with Joe on this one.

Related: I know the dude (Person) is/was a boner, but he has improved over the last few years. Seeing how successful Jourdan has been might have humbled him a little bit.

Edited August 14, 2024 by Icege

[Ricky Spanish]

6 minutes ago, frankw said:

I accept and also apologize for anything that could be misconstrued. I have no ill will toward my fellow fans no matter how heated discussions may get. I also do not see someone as inferior for having a difference of opinion. Honestly there's too much provoking going on in both sides of this heated discussion.

Now I need to make my position here clear. I'm not trying to entirely dismiss what you're saying here. You are presenting correct data. But like anything additional context is required. When I am talking about turnovers I am also speaking about the now. No he did not have an alarmingly high number of interceptions last year. Although you could argue if he pushed the ball downfield more he would have approached Howell's number. I cannot stress enough how unwilling he was to pull the trigger on a lot of pass attempts for reasons we can argue about for hours. But you have to acknowledge the distinct lack of any consistent downfield threats from BY skews that data some as far as comparison to Howell. I know and agree that we want him to get this out of his system in practice. But still. The existence and circumstances of these picks he's thrown this month are very concerning. And I do not think they are just going to disappear come regular season. Especially if he does not get any important preseason reps.

Tomorrow will bring much needed clarity to this whole debate. All we can do is wait.

No argument here. We'll see how much was Bryce and how much was personnel and or play calling this year.

I honestly have no clue what the chicken or the egg is with Bryce. It wasn't just the lack of downfield plays, it was the lack of explosive plays in general. There were no pass plays where a guy took a quick slant an additional 30 yards, or plays where a receiver made a guy miss and took it to the house. It was all quick curls, out routes, and 0 YAC all year long. How much of that was Bryce not getting the ball to the right guy/giving them a chance at YAC, and how much of that was Reich's terrible scheme?

The new coaching staff gives hope that those plays CAN happen, but is Bryce capable of getting the ball to the playmakers for explosive plays? No way to tell until the season starts, unfortunately.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, App Panther said:

At some point Canales is going to tell Tepper that Bryce isn't it. Likely around mid-season. That will be a very interesting conversation.

it probably will be morgan having the talk but yeah it will be interesting

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, Icege said:

 

has he got a shiner?  Heard he got KO'd recently....And #73 is Smith the OT from WCU and Laurinburg