something to feel good about in the offseason..."could be something special brewing in Carolina"

[Proudiddy]

On 5/17/2025 at 7:58 PM, PadresPanthersFan said:

We had our close losses last year to playoff teams. Ill take winning any day. Fug a couple draft spots. Gimme a couple more wins and a playoff berth all day

This.  And ultimately, what we can learn from perrineal contenders is that draft position doesn’t matter - it’s who you acquire and how you develop them.  If Bryce is indeed for real, and if Morgan and the front office prove to be elite at talent acquisition and development like we hope, then it’s just plugging holes from here.  It focus should be winning.  Period.

and funny enough, reading that excerpt, this is the first time in our entire history that I’ve ever seen us mentioned with one of the lowest strength of schedules.  For as long as I can remember, we were always in the top 5 toughest and it felt like we never could catch a break when it came to that.  Maybe things are finally going our way.

[flagfootballcoach28]

10 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

And we went 5-12 last year while being nowhere near the playoffs 

You think going 8-9 while being in the playoff hunt until Week 17 or 18 and ending up just missing out wouldn't be considered growth this year?

You're acting like I'm saying we should be playing for the #1 pick and try to lose every game for it.  It's not even like I'm saying I want us going into Week 18 needing a win to make the playoffs and a loss keeps us out and thus I'm rooting against us that game.

I'm solely saying that I think making the playoffs only to lose in the first round would in the end, be less beneficial for us than if we were to just miss the playoffs, pick 5-7 spots earlier in the draft, and get the easier schedule that goes along with it.

A Panthers team that makes the playoffs but still loses round 1 probably has a better version of Bryce Young than a Panthers team that barely misses the playoffs. If we’re doing hypothetical, give me a higher %chance of Bryce being the real than better draft picks. 

[tukafan21]

5 hours ago, jfra78 said:

You said that you'd rather miss the playoffs if we can't win the superbowl, and getting to the championship game is not winning the Superbowl.  So its the same thing.  I much rather get a wildcard game and get bounced than watch some other team play that game.  Don't care about draft positioning

So you're just going to put words in my mouth?

Because literally the very first sentence I said in this thread was that if we're not going to be true contenders (not champions, but just an actual contender, i.e. a team that can win multiple playoff games and have a true chance at making a SB run), that I'd rather miss the playoffs than win the division and then lose in the first round.

On 5/17/2025 at 7:22 PM, tukafan21 said:

Unless a miracle happens and we're legit SB contenders, I want to just miss the playoffs due to some close losses, not win the division to lose in the first round.

But you've tried to twist it into me now saying if we don't win it all, then I'd rather miss the playoffs, despite me numerous times in this thread stating that's explicitly not the case, it's solely two options, make the playoffs and lose in the first round or just miss the playoffs, in which I'd rather miss the playoffs by a nose.

Have a different opinion if you want, but don't try and tell me I'm saying something I'm not to make your point.

Edited 13 hours ago by tukafan21

[Tomcatn]

13 hours ago, HaricotVert said:

If we’re eliminated I want the wins more.
 

The season is already a disappointment and if I’m not pulling for wins why bother to tune in?

This^^   I love knocking other teams out of playoff contentsion 

[PantherChris]

On 5/17/2025 at 7:22 PM, tukafan21 said:

Unless a miracle happens and we're legit SB contenders, I want to just miss the playoffs due to some close losses, not win the division to lose in the first round.

We finally have all of our picks again next year, I'd rather be picking 5-7 spots higher in each round, while at the same time, then having a 2nd or 3rd place schedule next year instead of a 1st place one.

I just can't see any scenario where we are true contenders this year, but we should find out if Bryce can be our QB of the future.  If he isn't, then we're not making the playoffs anyways and will have a high pick to replace him.  If he is, it means 2026 is the real opening of our SB window once we add some more defensive pieces, so I'd rather go into that season picking earlier and have an easier schedule.

And yes, I know people will say think like "you need to win to gain confidence and experience, blah blah blah"

But just missing out on the playoffs because you lost couple close games is certainly a way to make a team hungry going into the offseason and keep them motivated to be better.

I've said it before and still think it holds true, we need to look at the Lions and hope to repeat their path.

Our last few years were their early 2020s when they sucked.  This year can be our version of their 2022 when they missed the playoffs in week 17.  Then our 2026 can be their 2023 when they made a run to the NFC Championship game (and really should have won it).  Which then puts us in line to be one of the best teams in the league going into 2027, as they were last year.

Strong disagree part of building a future contender is linear improvement, getting in the playoffs and getting that big game experience is how you become a true contender.

[PantherChris]

On 5/17/2025 at 9:53 PM, WarPanthers89 said:

Only losers think about draft picks. I’ll gladly take a end of the 1st round draft pick to see this team do things.

 

I mean if your already eliminated in season yeah id rather have better picks than feel good wins, but 3 months prior to the start of the season with the hope of actually being a watchable product on the horizon f*ck that noise.

[PantherChris]

On 5/17/2025 at 9:53 PM, WarPanthers89 said:

Only losers think about draft picks. I’ll gladly take a end of the 1st round draft pick to see this team do things.

 

I mean if your already eliminated in season yeah id rather have better picks than feel good wins, but 3 months prior to the start of the season with the hope of actually being a watchable product on the horizon f*ck that noise.

[Khyber53]

20 hours ago, WhoKnows said:

It really doesn’t. Go look at the Lions draft history from 2021-2023. They turned around their team from joke to SB contender by picking 6 pro bowl players in 3 drafts.

Look at the 2020-2023 Houston drafts. Started with 2 pro bowlers in 2020/2021 as a base and then added Stingley, Stroud and Will Anderson in the last two drafts along with a bunch more starters and depth. Houston had a terrible massage parlor culture and a couple greats drafts getting 5 stud players turned them into a winning culture.

This slow burn win a little more and more works far less than just drafting well and in the cases above tanking a bit (trade Tunsil, Watson, Stafford, etc. and not after losing value) actually helped. There aren’t many, if any cases of bad teams trading up and being great. KC doesn’t count as Alex Smith had them in the playoffs every year.

Go look at a larger window for each team. Losing leaves a major, major lingering stink. 

And Kansas City had a massively large losing streak between Len Dawson and Alex Smith. We're talking decades. 

Losing franchises often have issues that are sooo much deeper than just the draft that it would take a miracle pick like Peyton Manning or  Elway or (I hate saying this) Brady to pull them out of their muck and mire they were lodged in. 

"Tanking" often just gives bad management, team building and coaching a pass for a season, maybe two. Just look to the Jaguars or Cardinals for examples. I'd say the Browns, but they built their own selves one of the most remarkable karma loops in NFL history with the Watson trade after a decade of tanking.

[rayzor]

we were really competitive after Bryce came back. we were a legit threat to the best teams in the league.  if you don't believe it, you didn't watch them play against the eagles, chiefs, bucs (at home), and the cardinals (who we kept out of the playoffs). 

the chiefs left here depressed after winning and the eagles were upset after we left there. both teams were beat up and acted almost like they lost, which they were just lucky they didn't. 

i think we've got it sorted out now. the run defense is going to be much better. passing defense will be improved as well. i mean the last several games we were really getting after the QB and causing them headaches. neither of the two QBs in the superbowl could get much done against us because we didn't give them any time. the first 7 games we had 7 sacks. the remainder of the season we had 25 sacks. we went from 1 sack per game to 2.5 sacks per game and i think we do better this year. the run defense will see the biggest boost, though. Getting DB back, and adding Bobbie Brown, Wharton, and Cam Jackson to the front will be a huge thing. and then adding Moehrig and Ransom at safety will be huge for us in controlling the run game as well. 

both sides of the ball we should see a significant uptick in performance, especially defense. things are simply just lining up right. we lost close games that this coming year we will win. they got it figured out and they brought in the personnel we need to get it done. 

[Icege]

16 hours ago, frankw said:

In relation to tanking. I think you can count on one hand the number of people here who actually want us to lose football games. When accounting for it across the fanbase it amounts to maybe 2% of the entire Panthers fanbase. But you engage with some internet trolls and think haters are coming out of the woodwork and hey look at that it's all a conspiracy that leads to Bryce Young haters. Do you hear yourself sir? If it sounds ridiculous that's because it is. I mean at this point do you see Bryce haters in your dreams?

As far as the culture of this franchise goes we seem to be doing better in that department via what we are building right now and with the people we have in place. But we also shouldn't just make assumptions just yet either. The rubber still needs to meet the road.

And going back to previous seasons I think we can acknowledge although tanking obviously isn't a thing there were some times where we thought our culture was improving but really it wasn't. Yes I'm looking directly at some of those wins under Wilks. If the culture had truly changed we would not have lost to the Steelers who have been mediocre for years at home the way we did and they were starting Mitch Trubisky ffs. We did not change our culture for the better and we won games that ultimately meant nothing. It was just a brief mirage. We've done this for years now. The harsh truth of the matter is the Panthers have not had a winning season or been to the playoffs in going on 8 years but in those years they've been trying to convince themselves they aren't poo but in the process all they've done throughout most of that time period is squander better draft position and we were still the worst team in the league for our troubles. At the end of the day we should be able to just be adults and reconcile with that. And no that isn't being "pro tank" or any other boogeyman term it's simply recognizing reality.

Woa there, Cinderella. Just because the shoe might fit doesn't mean that you need to put it on and run around inside the store.

Wild how you open by saying "almost nobody wants to lose," and then immediately launch into why winning under Wilks was bad, why the culture didn't actually improve, and why the team should've leaned harder into failure to get better draft position... That's not "reality." It's just more performative fatalism where every sign of progress gets reframed as a mirage, and every win is a setback unless it comes with a Lombardi. These are Olympics-level mental gymnastics designed to justify a perspective where the Panthers only deserve credit after success but are poo on for trying to build towards it.

You call it "ridiculous" to link this mindset with the endless Bryce hate (yours included, of course), but let's be honest: you have made that your brand as much as you like to claim that the Panthers have made being losing theirs. Every time progress gets mentioned, it's like clockwork... here comes the obligatory reminder that Bryce "isn't the guy" and that any progress he made didn't count because <insert moving goalpost here>. I have to tell you... that doesn't sound very "adult."

Edited 7 hours ago by Icege

[frankw]

1 hour ago, Icege said:

Woa there, Cinderella. Just because the shoe might fit doesn't mean that you need to put it on and run around inside the store.

Wild how you open by saying "almost nobody wants to lose," and then immediately launch into why winning under Wilks was bad, why the culture didn't actually improve, and why the team should've leaned harder into failure to get better draft position... That's not "reality." It's just more performative fatalism where every sign of progress gets reframed as a mirage, and every win is a setback unless it comes with a Lombardi. These are Olympics-level mental gymnastics designed to justify a perspective where the Panthers only deserve credit after success but are poo on for trying to build towards it.

You call it "ridiculous" to link this mindset with the endless Bryce hate (yours included, of course), but let's be honest: you have made that your brand as much as you like to claim that the Panthers have made being losing theirs. Every time progress gets mentioned, it's like clockwork... here comes the obligatory reminder that Bryce "isn't the guy" and that any progress he made didn't count because <insert moving goalpost here>. I have to tell you... that doesn't sound very "adult."

It shows just how deluded you are by the smell of your own brand and your desire to show everyone else how much better you are in your own mind that you very mistakenly reduce that post to nothing more than a summary of "Winning is bad". That's how fragile your psyche is now regarding anything that challenges the narrative you've built in your mind that the Panthers have actually been good and the decision makers have actually been competent through all these consecutive years of losing.

[Bear Hands]

I love the hype this year, it’s been a while. But those Fox playoff predictions included the Colts and Cowboys clinching - yikes haha

[CRA]

2 hours ago, Icege said:

Woa there, Cinderella. Just because the shoe might fit doesn't mean that you need to put it on and run around inside the store.

I will say, I do like what you did right here.  Independent of whatever yall are debating. 

[Bear Hands]

31 minutes ago, CRA said:

I will say, I do like what you did right here.  Independent of whatever yall are debating. 

lol