The Panthers have an effort problem

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

21 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Dabo is a consummate college coach. He's a recruiter and motivator. The NFL is a lot more about Xs and Os. Great college coach but I don't think he'd translate well at all to the NFL level.

Yeah it's one thing to put the fear of God into a bunch of wide eyed 18 and 19 year olds who are living away from their parents and family for the first time in their lives.  It's easy to get them to do what you want, and if they aren't getting it, Dabo runs a blue chip program with access to the best recruits in the country.  So see ya, enjoy the bench.  That setup would be like an NFL team having five first round picks in the draft every year.

Harbaugh and Carroll have managed to make the transition successfully but there are many more who haven't, one of whom we're familiar with.

Edited Monday at 05:00 PM by The NFL Shield At Midfield

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

That was an entire culture created.

Luke, Cam, TD, Kalil, Greg, Stew, Star, Tolbert, KK, Norman, the team just came together and those guys really had a cohesive well-defined locker room.  Heck, we had guys feeding off it like Bene, Fozzy, and Addison as part of the culture-definition.  

I will welcome whoever can step up and start bringing that type of energy to this team. 

Right now- If I'm looking personalities:

Hunt, Moehrig, McMillan, Princely, Wallace seem to fit the potential on energy side of things.  Those are who I'd identify that could grow into those type of players.  Would love to see it.  

I also feel stoic Ron.....was a lot tougher than credited for.   He didn't do the sideline theatrics.  But every once in awhile behind closed doors Ron still would show up on the sidelines.   

For all Ron's flaws, I do think he had a pretty good style and approach overall.  Toughest behind the scenes.  Believed in creating a player centric locker room and looking for those types.  

[mrcompletely11]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

I also feel stoic Ron.....was a lot tougher than credited for.   He didn't do the sideline theatrics.  But every once in awhile behind closed doors Ron still would show up on the sidelines.   

For all Ron's flaws, I do think he had a pretty good style and approach overall.  Toughest behind the scenes.  Believed in creating a player centric locker room and looking for those types.  

Players coach that had discipline and vets respected him.  X and os guy he was not

[Move the Panthers to Raleigh]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

I also feel stoic Ron.....was a lot tougher than credited for.   He didn't do the sideline theatrics.  But every once in awhile behind closed doors Ron still would show up on the sidelines.   

For all Ron's flaws, I do think he had a pretty good style and approach overall.  Toughest behind the scenes.  Believed in creating a player centric locker room and looking for those types.  

Ron was a scary dude when he was pissed

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Move the Panthers to Raleigh said:

Ron was a scary dude when he was pissed

and I don't think he got enough credit for really getting a NFL locker room.  I mean he came up in a tough one himself.  I don't think it was pure luck how his teams became to be in the end.   Lot of frankly old school personality types all magically ended up with Ron. 

Ron probably will always be my favorite coach here even with his warts. 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

and I don't think he got enough credit for really getting a NFL locker room.  I mean he came up in a tough one himself.  I don't think it was pure luck how his teams became to be in the end.   Lot of frankly old school personality types all magically ended up with Ron. 

Ron probably will always be my favorite coach here even with his warts. 

Yeah, Ron's only real flaw as a coach was lack of adaptability. He and Shula both basically came up with a game plan and usually a pretty good one at that but if it didn't work there was no plan B or C. We're just gonna keep doubling down on A and hope it eventually starts working.

[PantherChris]

35 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Canales' is great driving the positive energy but he's just not going to instill the "we will pummel you into submission" mentality many like to see.  I would love to see him with a bit less guardrails at times, let himself really come out-- want to know how he is when he's ticked off/wanting to bleed.  For now, we've got Dennis Morton in the house.  

I guess that's where the assistants and team leaders come in the time being.  I'd personally like to see a few guys that bring that no-prisoners mentality within our personnel.  Usually want it to be a collection of 3-5 that are these clear team-defining leaders. 

The other problem is our best players aren't that type of personality so it sets kind of a bland tone across the board under an enthusiastic HC.  

Hunt & Trevin are the closest thing to tone setters.  

 

Yea IMO it needs to be a LB to be the tone setter on defense....  the beating heart....

 

That said Wallace ain't there yet. 

 

A couple LBs in next years class I hope we get a chance at...

 

Styles 

Barton

Edited Monday at 05:22 PM by PantherChris

[Bear Hands]

48 minutes ago, CRA said:

I also feel stoic Ron.....was a lot tougher than credited for.   He didn't do the sideline theatrics.  But every once in awhile behind closed doors Ron still would show up on the sidelines.   

For all Ron's flaws, I do think he had a pretty good style and approach overall.  Toughest behind the scenes.  Believed in creating a player centric locker room and looking for those types.  

Bingo.  Ron was a great coach in so many ways.  With one super frustrating quality-- but it was because he prioritized and really looked to the vets to lead the way.  He saw a little too much in vets that weren't all that great, and locked on for too long.  But man, that guy commanded the team.  Commanded respect and he got crazy intense a few times.  Not the type to get pissed off.  Even with Cam, Luke, TD, he was still driving.  

[raleigh-panther]

3 hours ago, PleaseCutStewart said:

Unfortunately this can happen when you don't have those dawgs that hold everyone, including themselves, accountable. You know damn sure players like Cam, TD, Luke, etc. wouldn't tolerate lack of effort and would chew your ass out if you half-assed it.

Still think we have needed a culture change since Luke retired/Cam's shoulder died. Really need Bryce to be that player

You are right 

we do need that player

At the nfl level, im not sure Bryce is that person    It isnt his dna    

not that kinda leader that pulls team up when it goes not well   

At l least i havent seen it to date 

he must produce this year 

 

 

 

 

[raleigh-panther]

1 hour ago, PantherChris said:

Yea IMO it needs to be a LB to be the tone setter on defense....  the beating heart....

 

That said Wallace ain't there yet. 

 

A couple LBs in next years class I hope we get a chance at...

 

Styles 

Barton

Wallace plays like what he is

a 3rd draft choice

[ProcessBlue2]

3 hours ago, CRA said:

as Morgan would say.....we lack "dawgs". 

I will say, I do think this team/era lacks a certain energy to it.  I don't see the players rostered that provide it.  Canales is a rah rah HC.  Bryce Young is as a laid back as it gets.   I mean, who is the voice on the O side? Who is the voice on the D side? 

I mean, we have some decent players.  But is Derrick Brown going to round up the crew like a Thomas Davis would if things ain't right?  Who is that voice on the O? 

Carolina doesn't have an edge.  I think all teams need a couple players at this level that provide that.  Not just on the field but in house.  That remains a mystery.   Roster full of nice dudes, cashing checks.  We need a couple w/ a screw slightly loose that probably have an unhealthy relationship w/ winning/losing. 

I think it’s going to take a while to change the culture. Fox did it, Rivera carried it on but there has been a huge lack of effort since Rhule. There needs to be turnover at multiple levels, not just the roster to change that.

[TheSpecialJuan]

17 hours ago, raleigh-panther said:

Good observations  

 

This guy is terrific, one of the few excellent Panthers YouTubers out there 

[OldhamA]

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Players coach that had discipline and vets respected him.  X and os guy he was not

Wasn't he an excellent DC? (which is why he kept getting HC interviews despite failing at his first few)

[LinvilleGorge]

30 minutes ago, ProcessBlue2 said:

I think it’s going to take a while to change the culture. Fox did it, Rivera carried it on but there has been a huge lack of effort since Rhule. There needs to be turnover at multiple levels, not just the roster to change that.

A big part of it was fixing the QB position. We found Jake on the trash heap for Fox and Clausen sucked us to Cam for Rivera. If Bryce starts playing like what he was drafted to be a lot of problems will magically seem a lot less dire. Not saying we'll be instantly good but we'll instantly be competitive and more hopeful.