Panthers Converted OT Matt Kalil's $10M Option Bonus Into A Signing Bonus Guaranteeing He'll Be On Roster In 2018

[Doc Holiday]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

So this should provide cap savings given the option bonus isn't prorated but signing bonuses are so his cap hit will go down which is the whole point of why it was converted.

So we actually have a better cap number now, but more dead money if he’s cut

[bababoey]

I don't know why everyone keeps saying this doesn't help the panthers.  Signing bonuses can be amortized, depreciated, spread out over a 5 year period.  Option bonuses count for that one year only.  So you had a player that had a 10 million dollar cap hit this year that just got changed to a 2 million dollar cap hit this year.  Now in the future this is going to hurt if you cut him but right now it helps by like 8 million dollars to the cap.

[imminent rogaine]

11 minutes ago, cookinbrak said:

Yep. I can't remember who it was, but we were paying somebody 7 million to play for somebody else.

I remember paying Delhomme when he was playing for Cleveland. There was some clause that Hurney didn't include because he isn't a real GM so both teams were basically paying him a full salary to play for Cleveland.

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, Doc Holiday said:

So we actually have a better cap number now, but more dead money if he’s cut

I can't figure out how it doesn't help reduce cap space but the salary structure it complicated so I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first or last time.

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, Doc Holiday said:

So we actually have a better cap number now, but more dead money if he’s cut

According to Spotrac and Yates, no, we don't.

Both bonuses count the same toward the cap. The only difference is one was guaranteed whereas the other wasn't.

[panthers55]

3 minutes ago, bababoey said:

I don't know why everyone keeps saying this doesn't help the panthers.  Signing bonuses can be amortized, depreciated, spread out over a 5 year period.  Option bonuses count for that one year only.  So you had a player that had a 10 million dollar cap hit this year that just got changed to a 2 million dollar cap hit this year.  Now in the future this is going to hurt if you cut him but right now it helps by like 8 million dollars to the cap.

That is why I was thinking but the tweets being offered up disagreed. Would like some clarification because otherwise it makes no sense to convert it to a signing bonus and raise future dead cap space if it doesn't cut this years cap hit from what it would be if the option were exercised and all 10 million went to this year's cap hit.

[4Corners]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

Yep because I think that is wrong. If it doesn't create cap savings you don't convert it to a signing bonus you simply exercise the option. Either way he gets paid. 

Some of us don't believe everything we see in a tweet.

Especially if it’s a tweet from an espn employee 

[LinvilleGorge]

This jives with my understanding of roster bonus vs. signing bonus amd how each impact the cap. I have no idea why this is bold but I cant get it to stop.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2016/2/23/11064246/nfl-101-getting-a-grip-on-salaries-and-bonuses-in-the-modern-nfl

Bonuses

There are several types of bonuses that can be included in a player's contract. The most common are Signing, Roster, Workout and Option bonuses.

 

Signing Bonus

 

A signing bonus is a lump sum of money to be paid to a player when he signs a contract. This bonus is often a key aspect of contract negotiations, because it is the only truly guaranteed money in any contract. Signing bonuses are not, however, counted in their entirety the year a player signs the contract. Instead, the dollar value is prorated over the length of the contract, up to a maximum of five years. That is only for accounting, though; the bonus is paid, in its entirety, at signing. Let's go back to our example contract. Let's assume Bob Player's contract includes a $3 million signing bonus. It would then be a three-year, $13 million contract, broken down as follows:

• $2 million ($1 million salary and $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 1
• $5 million ($4 million salary and $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 2
• $6 million ($5 million salary and $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 3

 

Roster Bonus

 

Roster bonuses basically say, "if you are still on the team when the new league year begins (typically in early March each year), we will pay you a bonus of X dollars." Unlike signing bonuses, roster bonuses are accounted for in their entirety in the year which they are paid. Let's revisit Bob Player's contract once again. If he has a $1 million roster bonus payable in year three, his actual pay per year would be $4 million, $4 million and $6 million, while his cap impact would look like this:

 

• $2 million ($1 million salary, $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 1
• $5 million ($4 million salary, $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 2
• $7 million ($5 million salary, $1 million signing bonus (prorated), $1 million roster bonus) in year 3

Typically, roster bonuses are given to players who meet any of these conditions: a history of injury, unproven players and players with dramatic increases in base salary from one year to another. This allows a team to cut ties with a player for these reasons and avoid having to account for their salaries, while giving the player a moderately binding promise of a lump-sum payout at the beginning of a league year.

[top dawg]

19 minutes ago, cookinbrak said:

Yep. I can't remember who it was, but we were paying somebody 7 million to play for somebody else.

Pretty sure that was Smitty.

[TheSpecialJuan]

Huddle response:  Hurney is a retard! 

[top dawg]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

All indications so far are that this benefits Matt Kalil but not the Panthers.

Why do that?

Well, we know that a certain owner recently helped guarantee that Ron Rivera and Marty Hurney were going to get paid no matter what happened with the team's ownership.

Could he now be looking to ensure that some of his favorite players also get a little extra cash?

Oy...

I'm hoping this is an isolated incident or that some sort of rationale will be uncovered soon. Because if not, it occurs to me that Jerry Richardson could definitely do some damage to our cap if he decided to give out a few "parting gifts".

And obviously, it would help to have a GM in place who would have no trouble agreeing to such actions.

I mean, if Mister wants it to happen, it's going to happen, regardless of the GM.

[Rags]

Okay so here's how I see it.

Even if this does save us cap this year it's gonna damage us the years after that.

And there's not a person on this message board who things Kalil should be here at least two more years. 

Sure he could play better but he has not played Very Well consistently all his carrer. But now for the next two seasons we have him at LT or, at best, a really expensive Backup.

Cool job Hurndog.

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, bababoey said:

I don't know why everyone keeps saying this doesn't help the panthers.  

Because every source we've been able to find that talks about the move says exactly that.

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This jives with my understanding of roster bonus vs. signing bonus amd how each impact the cap. I have no idea why this is bold but I cant get it to stop.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2016/2/23/11064246/nfl-101-getting-a-grip-on-salaries-and-bonuses-in-the-modern-nfl

Bonuses

There are several types of bonuses that can be included in a player's contract. The most common are Signing, Roster, Workout and Option bonuses.

 

Signing Bonus

 

A signing bonus is a lump sum of money to be paid to a player when he signs a contract. This bonus is often a key aspect of contract negotiations, because it is the only truly guaranteed money in any contract. Signing bonuses are not, however, counted in their entirety the year a player signs the contract. Instead, the dollar value is prorated over the length of the contract, up to a maximum of five years. That is only for accounting, though; the bonus is paid, in its entirety, at signing. Let's go back to our example contract. Let's assume Bob Player's contract includes a $3 million signing bonus. It would then be a three-year, $13 million contract, broken down as follows:

• $2 million ($1 million salary and $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 1
• $5 million ($4 million salary and $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 2
• $6 million ($5 million salary and $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 3

 

Roster Bonus

 

Roster bonuses basically say, "if you are still on the team when the new league year begins (typically in early March each year), we will pay you a bonus of X dollars." Unlike signing bonuses, roster bonuses are accounted for in their entirety in the year which they are paid. Let's revisit Bob Player's contract once again. If he has a $1 million roster bonus payable in year three, his actual pay per year would be $4 million, $4 million and $6 million, while his cap impact would look like this:

 

• $2 million ($1 million salary, $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 1
• $5 million ($4 million salary, $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 2
• $7 million ($5 million salary, $1 million signing bonus (prorated), $1 million roster bonus) in year 3

Typically, roster bonuses are given to players who meet any of these conditions: a history of injury, unproven players and players with dramatic increases in base salary from one year to another. This allows a team to cut ties with a player for these reasons and avoid having to account for their salaries, while giving the player a moderately binding promise of a lump-sum payout at the beginning of a league year.

I think you are right and this option bonus operates as a roster bonus. So again I think this actually raises his cap since the whole 10 million wasnt part of his cap hit until the option was exercised or until March 19th but lowers his cap hit from what it would have been if the option had been converted to salary alone and guaranteed for 2018.