Moving back to the 4-3

[Captain Morgan]

We're going to need a bigger DE opposite Burns, and he's not on the roster.  it's just another hole of many.  Too many to be fixed this year, even if we had 2 seconds and 2 thirds.

I hate that we didn't  do better with our comp picks.

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

The newly hired head coach and DC have both said we'll be using a variety of schemes and basing scheme off of the strengths of our players. Until I actually see evidence to the contrary, I'm assuming we're not going to be running any particular system exclusively or even predominantly.

We're going to be stealing from the Saints and running 11 DBs. They'll never know what hit em.

[TheCasillas]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

I wasn’t impressed either. I distinctly remember at least two rushing TDs where he just got sucked in for walk ins. He lost the edge way too easy. I think he had a couple sacks but our outside edges on the run were as bad as our insides. Everything was bad but he was noticeably bad against the run and that’s without playing much.

It’s a rebuild for sure and I hope we stick with the plan because we have some guys who absolutely need playing time and strength on the OL and DL and we’ve got a chance to get a bunch of 2021 comp picks. We need more bodies to see if we can hit on several. Growing pains but I’d rather see the young guys get a chance.

Just an FYI, but SF did the comp pick process while getting their 4 first round DL. From 2014 to 2017, they had 10-12 draft picks every year. Not 7 or 6, 10-12. Even the past two years  9 and 8. More ammo, better chance to hit a target. It was just trading down, it was lots of comp picks as well. We just need an anti-Marty helping him post round 1, so we don’t keep wasting day two and three picks.

 Coach-able, right?

 

Less than 20% of those players are on the roster currently for SF. A lot were early round misses. Not sure if that is a good comparison for draft tactics.

 

[t96]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

He's a free agent, not guaranteed to be back.

Riviera valued him. Do we know for sure that Rhule or Snow will?

OP included other FAs...

[1of10Charnatives]

17 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

We're going to be stealing from the Saints and running 11 DBs. They'll never know what hit em.

Since it will bounce off and going flying into the stands?

[bigdavis]

2 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

Christian Miller? The rookie who played less than 25% of the snaps in the 7 games he was healthy, hasnt shown you enough to prove he is an NFL player? I thought he shined and showed some potential in that game against AZ.

 

You are normally not this quick to jump on a player. I'd say we give the kid another year or two to show what he has before just writing him off.

I agree with you on Miller.  He showed the fire that Rhule values in his players.  He'll find a way to utilize him optimally.

[panthers34]

McGee is a DT. Burns and Haynes are DEs.
 

Whether they are undersized or not, both are DEs and will be rushing the passer. Haynes was even drafted as a DE and played a year in our 4-3. Christian Miller I could see being used in a more versatile role. Maybe some 4-3 OLB, maybe rushes the passer on 3rd down some. 
 

with all that said, I sure hope we add some more guys in FA and the draft because it’s a pretty weak group with a lot of question marks right now

[stbugs]

53 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

 Coach-able, right?

 

Less than 20% of those players are on the roster currently for SF. A lot were early round misses. Not sure if that is a good comparison for draft tactics.

 

Possibly. Definitely small on the edge. He got washed out easily.

Some of those drafts are after rookie contracts. Most of Marty’s guys the past two years are still with the team and we suck. Is it bad that Hyde had 1000 yards for Houston this year or Driskel started a few games at QB for Detroit and Trent Brown signed a huge deal with Oakland? Also, Lynch while he appears to be doing a solid job as GM, wasn’t there until 2017 so this even includes a GM that was fired for 3 of the 4 drafts.

That said your 20% is misleading. 19 of 43 picks in those 4 years are still on NFL rosters. The 24 also includes Borland, who retired very early for concussions, and Foster, the head case. So 19 still current NFLers for 4 drafts in 2014-2017 seems like a pretty good hit rate. That’s about 5 per draft and includes some late round studs like Kittle in the 5th and Brown in the 7th. SF had another 5th and 7th round picks both times so maybe having extra picks allowed them to take some shots that both worked out well.

[TheCasillas]

3 minutes ago, stbugs said:

That said your 20% is misleading. 19 of 43 picks in those 4 years are still on NFL rosters. The 24 also includes Borland, who retired very early for concussions, and Foster, the head case. So 19 still current NFLers for 4 drafts in 2014-2017 seems like a pretty good hit rate. That’s about 5 per draft and includes some late round studs like Kittle in the 5th and Brown in the 7th. SF had another 5th and 7th round picks both times so maybe having extra picks allowed them to take some shots that both worked out well.

How is it misleading? My statement is 100% accurate.... "Less than 20% of those players are on the roster currently for SF. A lot were early round misses. Not sure if that is a good comparison for draft tactics."

There were a lot of misses during that period of time for SF. If you are going to give them a pass for Borland and Foster, can we give Hurney a pass for Otah? I understand that you are looking for a team that has demonstrated a great draft tactic, but I wouldn't give that to the 49ers. Most of their drafts were "redos.' 

[imminent rogaine]

4 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

I'm not sure there really is a base defense anymore and I'm not sure that's a bad thing. 

Right now, a 4-2-5 set up is such a common run (nickels are sooo important with so many teams using spread formations or backfield receivers) that I think you need to build your team in that direction. 

That’s what we were ending up with the year before when our “base” was 4-3 and part of the reason Shaq couldn’t get any PT.  It’s for that reason that I think Cockrell would be a good guy to keep. He was very active Against both the pass and the run. 

I also feel like Miller could be a good hybrid guy to flex between traditional LB work and rushing the passer.

[stbugs]

3 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

How is it misleading? My statement is 100% accurate.... "Less than 20% of those players are on the roster currently for SF. A lot were early round misses. Not sure if that is a good comparison for draft tactics."

There were a lot of misses during that period of time for SF. If you are going to give them a pass for Borland and Foster, can we give Hurney a pass for Otah? I understand that you are looking for a team that has demonstrated a great draft tactic, but I wouldn't give that to the 49ers. Most of their drafts were "redos.' 

Misleading <> not accurate. Also, I never gave them a pass. I said that 2 if the 24 players that weren’t in the NFL were oddballs, i.e. not talent or injury. Borland didn’t even have a concussion. He did what Kuechly did but before he had a bad one.

Anyway, the 20% is misleading because it makes it seem like they got 1.4 picks right per draft when 4.75 players per draft were still in the NFL. Some like Hyde and Brown had moved on to other teams since 2014 was the first draft and that was 6 seasons ago. 4.75 players per draft still in the NFL is pretty damn good even if 3/4ths of the draft was done by the guy replaced by Lynch. The reason why the drafts were pretty good was because they averaged an extra 4 picks per draft increasing the odds.

Gotta love the Hurney defense since my whole original statement had nothing to do with them but was in support of comp picks and how they helped SF build their team. NE has also had a ton of comp picks over the years. I hope we aren’t dumb with FA and lose a bunch of potential picks while we are rebuilding. Cam or no Cam, we aren’t a playoff team.

[TheCasillas]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Misleading <> not accurate. Also, I never gave them a pass. I said that 2 if the 24 players that weren’t in the NFL were oddballs, i.e. not talent or injury. Borland didn’t even have a concussion. He did what Kuechly did but before he had a bad one.

Anyway, the 20% is misleading because it makes it seem like they got 1.4 picks right per draft when 4.75 players per draft were still in the NFL. Some like Hyde and Brown had moved on to other teams since 2014 was the first draft and that was 6 seasons ago. 4.75 players per draft still in the NFL is pretty damn good even if 3/4ths of the draft was done by the guy replaced by Lynch. The reason why the drafts were pretty good was because they averaged an extra 4 picks per draft increasing the odds.

Gotta love the Hurney defense since my whole original statement had nothing to do with them but was in support of comp picks and how they helped SF build their team. NE has also had a ton of comp picks over the years. I hope we aren’t dumb with FA and lose a bunch of potential picks while we are rebuilding. Cam or no Cam, we aren’t a playoff team.

You and I agree here. Solid points my friend.

[MHS831]

7 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I can't really say I'd be all that busted up if we were to move on from Marquis Haynes. I'm starting to get a Damiere Byrd vibe with him,.

("No really, this is the year he's going to break out!")

Christian Miller hasn't exactly shown a lot yet either. He's yet to prove he can be an NFL player.

Miller had an injury problem is college.  Now here.  He gets hurt brushing his teeth.

[Woodie]

Everybody likes labels, especially labels that reference things the way were when they learned about the game.  However, that doesn't fit anymore in todays NFL.

We will not play 3-4 and we will not play 4-3, nor will we play any other fixed alignment.  We will play a hybrid defense that incorporates elements of many different defensive schemes.  This is why you hear so much about multiple defenses.  The idea now is to be able to adapt to whatever the offense is doing, and have players on defense that can switch alignments on a game by game, or even play by play basis.  

Look for flex guys like Burns to be a big part of the defense.  Burns can be a strong pass rusher from any alignment, but he showed at the combine that he has the movement skills to be able to drop into coverage on occasion, as well as the ability to be a good pursuit run defender.  Also look for guys that can play multiple positions along the DL.   

This is why I wouldn't discount to possibility that we take a hybrid guy like Simmons at #7 over a straight DT in Brown.  It would just add to the flexibility we would have on defense.