Hurney not.....bad???? Wut

[Cary Kollins]

all this means is Hurney isn't all that active in free agency

[FuFuLamePoo]

Fire Hurney

[Mr. Scot]

13 minutes ago, TN05 said:

Byron Bell was an underrated free agent. Two of his three years as starter here were under Gettleman.

I thought about including that fact, but I decided to leave it alone just to see who would bring it up.

It doesn't matter.

The point of mentioning it was to show that being a four year starter doesn't mean the person is a quality player. 

[panthers55]

1 hour ago, Madwolf said:

It's really hard to tell what this really says about drafting, other than the fact that it's less of a sure thing as everyone likes to pretend.

There are lots of factors at play here:

• Did teams end up with 4 year starters because they simply stuck with players stubbornly?
• Did teams end up with 4 year starters because they didn't draft properly and forced themselves to play guys who wouldn't have stuck around in the NFL on other rosters?
• Did guys wash out because the team is a poor organization and the coaching and staff carousels grinded up players and spit them out before they ever could establish themselves in a single system or under a staff?
• How much of this is down to bad injury luck one way or another?

This list is really confusing because it would suggest that certain teams should simply have been a lot better over the last 15 years. Yet some of your Super Bowl winners are at the bottom and some of your worst Franchises over the last 15 years are towards the top. Are we suddenly going to start heaping praise on the Jets and Dolphins? Are the Patriots a bad organization?

This is the perfect display of how numbers lie. The data has to be properly correlated, and if it's not you're going to assume that every time the Cowboys start 0-4 they're going to win the Super Bowl.

The list isnt confusing at all, it is pretty straightforward. But as you note, what does it tell us. Obviously drafting isn't an easy or exact science so you don't hit that many.   Couple that with how you build your team.  You might for example have lots of starters simply because you don't bring a bunch of quality free agents so your guys start by default. Other teams may use the draft to find a starter or two but mostly for depth since they have established starters and don't like starting rookies and prefer vets. Or some teams may prefer 3 year contracts outside the first few rounds and often don't resign  them or they trade them so you would have less 4 year starters. Does this tell you who has the best team. No. But it does suggest that if you say you build from the draft, this gives you some indication of how many starters they produced but say nothing about their quality. The problem is when you try to make conclusions not supported by the data. From this you can't tell that much.   

[TheSpecialJuan]

we da best 

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

To all of you who are discrediting this name a Hurney drafted player who started 4 years or more and was garbage?

Charles Godfrey is the first name that comes to mind.

Also Jeff King, Brandon LaFell and James Anderson.

[Davidson Deac II]

49 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Nice dodge.

I think in this case, its not really a dodge.  Not saying Hurney didn't have input, but Tepper hired the coach he wanted.  The same was probably true with JR.  

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Davidson Deac II said:

I think in this case, its not really a dodge.  Not saying Hurney didn't have input, but Tepper hired the coach he wanted.  The same was probably true with JR.  

Go back and listen to how Tepper described their meeting.

We're not just talking about us though. In the NFL in general, GM's are the ones that hire the coaches. The owners just put their stamp on it.

I know we've got some folks here who want to say that anything Hurney did wrong was really Richardson's fault (or now Tepper's, I suppose) but that's silly.

[Davidson Deac II]

I actually do think Marty is ok at drafting players, at least in comparison to the rest of the NFL.  Its other aspects of the job that I am not so sure about

But if you draft a lot of four year starters, and you are under 500 for the last two seasons, did you do a good job drafting?  Did you draft good players, or players who could only start for bad teams?

[Davidson Deac II]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Go back and listen to how Tepper described their meeting.

We're not just talking about us though. In the NFL in general, GM's are the ones that hire the coaches. The owners just put their stamp on it.

I know we've got some folks here who want to say that anything Hurney did wrong was really Richardson's fault (or now Tepper's, I suppose) but that's silly.

Tepper's description means little to me.  Executives tend to phrase things in ways that make their words less than accurate.  Tepper is no different in that regard than other corporate executives.   He hired the coach he wanted, albeit with input from others.  Hurney being one of those others   

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I actually do think Marty is ok at drafting players, at least in comparison to the rest of the NFL.  Its other aspects of the job that I am not so sure about

But if you draft a lot of four year starters, and you are under 500 for the last two seasons, did you do a good job drafting?

Igo has said that Marty does okay when he listens to the scouts, but royally screws up when he gets a wild hair.

The report we had from one former insider was that Marty got a lot of wild hairs on draft day and the scouts had to talk him out of them.

[WarHeel]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Byron Bell is a four year starter too.

Right but that’s an anomaly at the position. Compared to the aforementioned Dalton at the QB position where coaches/GMs tend to act conservatively before taking them out of rotation or parting ways altogether. It’s a little “apples to oranges.”

[Madwolf]

3 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

To all of you who are discrediting this name a Hurney drafted player who started 4 years or more and was garbage?

 

Breaking down the last 15 years (Gettleman mixed in), + some leeway on making it to 4 years 

2005:

Thomas Davis - Good pick, held onto him for as long as could be expected

Evan Mathis - Good pick we didn't hang onto

Geoff Hangartner - Good pick we didn't hang onto.

2006:

Deangelo Williams - Great pick, we held onto forever. Should have given him OR Stew a big contract though, not both

Richard Marshall - Good pick, who we didn't hold onto

James Anderson - Good pick we didn't hang onto

Jeff King - Decent pick

Will Motgomery - Good pick, don't think we held onto him

2007:

Jon Beason - Great pick, but injury luck took him from us early

Ryan Kalil - Great pick, same as TD

Charles Johnson - Great pick, same as TD

Donte Rosario - Pretty good pick, but we didn't hold onto him because we didn't know TEs were supposed to catch the ball

2008:

J Stew - Great pick, but odd when we did it. Should have given him or D Will a contract, not both.

Charles Godfrey - Meh pick

Gary Barnidge - Good pick we didn't even use for most of his career, and we didn't hang onto him the moment he showed he could catch the ball.

Mackinzie Bernaedu - Good late round pick, we didn't hang on to.

2009:

Captain Munnerlynn - Literally the only pick worth a crap, and he was a 7th rounder, who again, we didn't hold onto.

2010:

Brandon LaFell - Good find in the 2nd. 

Greg Hardy - Good late pick in terms of talent, but guy was certified nuts.

Robert McClain - Good late pick

2011:

Cam Newton - Great, no brainer pick. Not really sure you deserve credit for this one.

2012:

Luke Kuechly - Great pick, again I think a no brainer though

Josh Norman - Great late round pick, but we didn't hold onto him.

Brad Nortman - Good late round pick

2013:

Star - Great pick, but we didn't hold onto him

Short - Great pick

AJ Klien - Good pick we didn't hold onto

2014: 

Kelvin Benjamin - Bad pick

Kony Ealy - Bad pick

Tria Turner - Good pick, we didn't hold onto him

Boston - Good pick, we didn't initially hold onto him, and now we did

2015:

Shaq Thompson - Good pick, we held onto him

Devin Funchess - Meh pick, didn't hold onto him

David Mayo - Good late round pick, we didn't hold onto him.

Daryl Williams - Okay late round pick, but health issues derailed him, and we rightly didn't hold onto him.

2016:

Vernon Butler - Meh pick, we didn't really use him well and we didn't hold onto him.

James Bradburry - Good pick, didn't hold onto him

2017: 

CMC - Great pick, but also a no-brainer

Curtis Samuel - Meh pick. Project player, who is still boom or bust at this point in his career

Taylor Morton - Good pick

2018:

DJ Moore - Good pick

Donte Jackson - Jury is still out

Ian Thomas - Not a bad pick, but jury is still out.

2019:

Brian Burns - Looking good so far

 

[jfra78]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Charles Godfrey is the first name that comes to mind.

Also Jeff King, Brandon LaFell and James Anderson.

I wouldnt say they were garbage, they were starters here and for other teams.  Complete garbage would mean no one would want them