If Bridgwater is anythign less than elite, the front office screwed up

[mav1234]

2 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Whether it is cheap or not is irrelevant.

If we win 6 games next year and we draft a rookie in the first round next year is it worth it?

 

too hard to answer.

but you do realize that Teddy is like... the lowest paid starting QB based on yearly average if we exclude dudes on rookie deals, right?

we needed a QB that wasn't dog poo b ecause dog poo QBs don't help weapons like Curtis Samuel, DJ Moore, and CMC tap into their potential with a new OC.  Teddy could develop into something great and if not he is a good stopgap.

[Madwolf]

10 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Whether it is cheap or not is irrelevant.

If we win 6 games next year and we draft a rookie in the first round next year is it worth it?

 

When the Panthers will still have one of the best cap situations in the NFL in the years to come? I mean it certainly isn't bad.

[ForJimmy]

$20 million a year for the next 3 years shouldn’t get you an “elite” QBs. Pat Mahomes is about to make close to double that. Teddy is perfect for the role we want him at. Can run Brady’s offense, is proven with potential to be even better. He could light it up and we might be set at QB. More likely, he will be solid, and we will look at next year’s draft for our franchise QB. Then we have several options. Let the rookie learn under Teddy for several games to a year. Teddy is a high character guy who would be great for a QB to learn under. Then we trade Teddy or release him before his final year with little cap consequences. Or we can trade Teddy before his 2nd year and let the rookie start. It’s all about flexibility without crippling our cap space.

[Matt62881]

On 5/5/2020 at 1:56 PM, AU-panther said:

Cam still unsigned.

Dalton signed for 3-7 million.

Winston signed for 1-3 million.

As the title says, if Teddy Bridgewater in anything less than elite we screwed up.

If we use a first round pick on a QB, signing TB was a mistake.  You are basically spending 60 million to keep a seat warm.

I don't buy the excuse that he will be good for a rookie to learn from.  That is what coaches are for, but if you are determeined to have a vet to learn from you can find those cheaply in free agency

Don't get me wrong, I hope he flourishes in our system, and maybe he will, and at that point 20 million is a year is more than fair. 

I'm just not a big fan of paying guys to become something they haven't been consitatntaly in the past.  Matt Kalil is a perfect example of that.  We paid him hoping he would become something better than his recent play showed.

We could have kept Cam under contract while he waited for an offer another team with the intention of just using Grier.  At this point Cam might have been willing to play under just a one year deal.

I'm not even going to get into how many draft picks, either through comp picks or higher future picks we are probably going to lose out on.

I think the ultimately the front office misjudged the QB market this year, not only what Cam would get on the open market, but also what the team could have signed if they didn't want to keep Cam.

I really hope Bridgewater flourishes and turns into Drew Brees and we don't even need to draft a QB next year, but its definitely a huge gamble.

 

Imo from watching film, bridgewater got better as the games went on, easily his worst game was the one he came in for Brees for obvious reasons. I'm hoping to get an above average Qb out of him that is accurate. If you watch the last game or 2 he played last year he started completing more down field throws then the other games. I for one am excited about the offense! 

[top dawg]

12 hours ago, AU-panther said:

Whether it is cheap or not is irrelevant.

If we win 6 games next year and we draft a rookie in the first round next year is it worth it?

 

That may have been a scenario that was a part of the plan anyway (plan A, B, or C)!

Bridgewater is a vet, so he won't have to go through a learning curve or transition. At the same time, he is really getting to restart his career in the role of starter which was detailed by injury. 

Regardless of whether you or anyone else wants to acknowledge it or not, Teddy has showed promise as a starter---enough so that he was coveted this offseason by a few teams. He's done nothing but win pretty much in the role, unlike some of the others people are crowing about. And he's won recently!

Even if we only win six games, it likely won't be all on him. I mean, we have a young team and a new coaching staff. In my opinion, people should get off his jock. But for the specter of injury, he looks about as good as anyone else and deserves as much patience from fans as "the next big thing" in the minds of fans!

[electro's horse]

i know we on the internet (im just as bad) are either "superbowl or first round pick" but i dont think the moves made by ruhle indicate he doesnt believe the team can compete

i mean ryan tannehill was in the afc championship game this year so he might be right

im not saying this panthers team is going to the nfc championship, or the playoffs at all, or that there's going to be football, just that ruhle is probably worried about this season and not the next. 

[Sgt Schultz]

The big assumption in this whole flawed argument is that your top 3 draft choice QB will work out.  Statistically, an early first round QB is an iffy proposition, at best.  The numbers I saw from a few years ago placed it at a tad under 40%.  So, roughly a 60% chance of failure.  If you are saying that if you don't find an elite QB, sign one from the bottom of the bargain bin, you can be in the bargain bin cycle for a long time.  How long do you dance to that tune?

If the search drags on, what do you do with the rest of the team?  You could very well wind up with a pretty good team around a bargain-basement QB who is the impediment to success.  Or do you reset every time the elite QB turned out to be David Carr or Jamarcus Russell?  We've all seen teams that perhaps could have "been something," if they only got mediocre play from the QB.  But they didn't.  They continued to take pot shots in the draft, every time thinking they finally found their QB, and every time being wrong. 

Eventually the rest of the team ages out or moves on when their contracts are up, in search of bigger bounty.  If Murphy is correct, you eventually find the elite QB but the rest of the pieces are gone and the window has closed. 

We are used to seeing an offense that was basically built on one person.  That is not the norm.  Championships are often won by teams who were well constructed and came together as a group, often led by a middle-tier QB who stepped up his game when it counted.  In some cases, a middle-tier QB who simply allowed the rest of the team to win.

So, how long do you wait before you do exactly what the Panthers did: sign somebody you are convinced can run your offense, build the team, and kick the tires on young QBs along the way?

[Untouchable]

Bridgewater is not elite but can be successful if he gets a little more aggressive with pushing the ball downfield.  In fact because of the offensive scheme and weapons around him I wouldn't be surprised if he puts up better numbers compared to the elite QB we just let go (OL dependent).

Also, after looking into the Saints/LSU offense I can safely say that Michael Thomas is severely overrated and how the Saints use him is exactly how DJ Moore should be used going forward.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Bridgewater is not elite but can be successful if he gets a little more aggressive with pushing the ball downfield.  In fact because of the offensive scheme and weapons around him I wouldn't be surprised if he puts up better numbers compared to the elite QB we just let go (OL dependent).

Also, after looking into the Saints/LSU offense I can safely say that Michael Thomas is severely overrated and how the Saints use him is exactly how DJ Moore should be used going forward.

Severely overrated?  You are insane, the dude had 150 catches on 1700 yards.  WTF are you talking about?

[Davidson Deac II]

1 hour ago, Sgt Schultz said:

The big assumption in this whole flawed argument is that your top 3 draft choice QB will work out.  Statistically, an early first round QB is an iffy proposition, at best.  The numbers I saw from a few years ago placed it at a tad under 40%.  So, roughly a 60% chance of failure.  If you are saying that if you don't find an elite QB, sign one from the bottom of the bargain bin, you can be in the bargain bin cycle for a long time.  How long do you dance to that tune?

If the search drags on, what do you do with the rest of the team?  You could very well wind up with a pretty good team around a bargain-basement QB who is the impediment to success.  Or do you reset every time the elite QB turned out to be David Carr or Jamarcus Russell?  We've all seen teams that perhaps could have "been something," if they only got mediocre play from the QB.  But they didn't.  They continued to take pot shots in the draft, every time thinking they finally found their QB, and every time being wrong. 

Eventually the rest of the team ages out or moves on when their contracts are up, in search of bigger bounty.  If Murphy is correct, you eventually find the elite QB but the rest of the pieces are gone and the window has closed. 

We are used to seeing an offense that was basically built on one person.  That is not the norm.  Championships are often won by teams who were well constructed and came together as a group, often led by a middle-tier QB who stepped up his game when it counted.  In some cases, a middle-tier QB who simply allowed the rest of the team to win.

So, how long do you wait before you do exactly what the Panthers did: sign somebody you are convinced can run your offense, build the team, and kick the tires on young QBs along the way?

Agreed.  The odds of a first round qb, even a top ten pick, living up to expectations is relatively small.  I don't think any team should ever intentionally tank to get a specific player.  

That being said, If we end up in a position to draft Lawrence, then I would do it.  But I wouldn't want the team to intentionally try to target him.  

[Peon Awesome]

Also to say Bridgewater needs to be elite or it's a terrible decision is silly. If playing Bridgewater over Grier means we have a fun team that stays competitive in most matchups but ends up losing 2/3rd of the games in year 1, putting us in position to get even more talent in the 2021 draft, either for an elite qb prospect that will be groomed to start in 2022, or a talented player at a premium position that can take us into playoff contention in 2021, then I'm happy we signed him. Just imagine we play Grier all year, end up 2-14, get the 2nd pick in the draft off of a tie breaker, and take Fields who ends up being a bust (cause let's not pretend he's a surefire can't-miss prospect). Signing Bridgewater is a higher floor option that still has a lot of upside.

[jumpman910]

33 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Severely overrated?  You are insane, the dude had 150 catches on 1700 yards.  WTF are you talking about?

I think he just saying it's the same offense that balloon Ja'marr Chase's stat line. Which is the role DJ will assume in this offense. 

IMO he's under selling Thomas's talent. You still gotta catch the ball and make top cb's look silly. 

BTW Ja'marr is a different type of stud, if he can have another elite year.  

[Untouchable]

 

8 minutes ago, jumpman910 said:

I think he just saying it's the same offense that balloon Ja'marr Chase's stat line. Which is the role DJ will assume in this offense. 

IMO he's under selling Thomas's talent. You still gotta catch the ball and make top cb's look silly. 

BTW Ja'marr is a different type of stud, if he can have another elite year.  

You got it, it's more of comment about the offensive scheme.  Thomas is a fine player but also someone who is being talked about as the best WR in the game today and a Top 5 WR all time is yes being severely overrated.  He's being schemed into favorable matchups and situations time after time.

[mrcompletely11]

10 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

 

You got it, it's more of comment about the offensive scheme.  Thomas is a fine player but also someone who is being talked about as the best WR in the game today and a Top 5 WR all time is yes being severely overrated.  He's being schemed into favorable matchups and situations time after time.

who is a better wr in todays game?