Go on record. Who still wants Watson?

[top dawg]

31 minutes ago, jackson113 said:

Huddle thinks Watson is a Saint, funny thing is he probably wasn’t coming here in the first place. Just don’t know about this place, and I’ve been here since Jake Delhome years.

I don't believe anyone thinks he's a saint (but funny that you used "Saint"), some people just believe that people are "innocent until proven guilty", and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. This is America, after all, and even though it's still fuged up in too many ways, including its uneven-handed justice system, the theory of a presumption of innocence in its purest form is the ideal!

All that being said, Watson has a growing list of legitimate legal problems, much less those in the court of public opinion. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/the-lawsuit-that-is-most-problematic-for-deshaun-watson-014827728.html

Lastly, pre-lawsuits, the Panthers were a legitimate contender for Watson's services! That should be pretty much an accepted fact at this point, being that it's been reported by so many news outlets! Someone could say, "He probably was coming here", and they're statement would have just as much legitimacy as yours (or not). 

 

[BurnNChinn]

58 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I don't believe anyone thinks he's a saint (but funny that you used "Saint"), some people just believe that people are "innocent until proven guilty", and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. This is America, after all, and even though it's still fuged up in too many ways, including its uneven-handed justice system, the theory of a presumption of innocence in its purest form is the ideal!

All that being said, Watson has a growing list of legitimate legal problems, much less those in the court of public opinion. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/the-lawsuit-that-is-most-problematic-for-deshaun-watson-014827728.html

Lastly, pre-lawsuits, the Panthers were a legitimate contender for Watson's services! That should be pretty much an accepted fact at this point, being that it's been reported by so many news outlets! Someone could say, "He probably was coming here", and they're statement would have just as much legitimacy as yours (or not). 

 

Couldn’t word it any better, totally agree!

[MGH1989]

3 hours ago, Agent Blue said:

Why would I not want Watson? 

He hasnt been charged much less convicted of anything. 

As far as I am concerned he is innocent of any of these accusations until proven otherwise in a court of law. 

You really want to give up assets for Watson amid a massive cloud of uncertainty for lawsuits that will take months and perhaps years to play out? That would be dumb as poo. I hope you all are prepared to either draft a rookie or stick with Teddy. Cause the Watson ship has sailed.

Edited March 26, 2021 by MGH1989

[LegioX]

3 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

fuging hilarious how many have  publicly shamed and disowned Jerry Richardson, but are willing to sit here and say, "that's my qb". 

People in the world are the biggest hypocrites. 

[LinvilleGorge]

No way do I want Watson right now. There has to be a lot of clarity come to this situation before I'd even think about bringing him into the fold.

[BrianS]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

No way do I want Watson right now. There has to be a lot of clarity come to this situation before I'd even think about bringing him into the fold.

If we were smart, we'd trade for him right now . . . but give up nothing this year.

Basically, we construct the trade in such a way that we give up nothing immediately.  Past that, every single piece of the trade becomes contingent on him being eligible to play.  If these legal issues mean he's never eligible to play again, we give up nothing, ever.

Would I give up a couple first round picks 2022, 2023 for Watson?  Sure, assuming he's eligible to play / clears the charges.  Even if we get "our guy" this year and end up with a rookie franchise QB + Deshaun, that's massive capital.  We could easily recoup anything we give up for an in-the-clear Deshaun.

I think that scenario is INCREDIBLY unlikely, on numerous fronts, but I'd take it if the Texans would.

[frankw]

How is this still going? His judgement is awful no matter how you choose to look at this and you cannot make someone like that the face of your franchise in 2021 and certainly not for that kind of investment.

[pantherclaw]

2 hours ago, BrianS said:

If we were smart, we'd trade for him right now . . . but give up nothing this year.

Basically, we construct the trade in such a way that we give up nothing immediately.  Past that, every single piece of the trade becomes contingent on him being eligible to play.  If these legal issues mean he's never eligible to play again, we give up nothing, ever.

Would I give up a couple first round picks 2022, 2023 for Watson?  Sure, assuming he's eligible to play / clears the charges.  Even if we get "our guy" this year and end up with a rookie franchise QB + Deshaun, that's massive capital.  We could easily recoup anything we give up for an in-the-clear Deshaun.

I think that scenario is INCREDIBLY unlikely, on numerous fronts, but I'd take it if the Texans would.

Our team wouldn't be worth supporting, if they traded for Watson now. 

 

 

[BrianS]

40 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Our team wouldn't be worth supporting, if they traded for Watson now. 

Based on?  He said / she said?  No charges have been filed.  No arrests have been made.

I don't know what if anything Watson is guilty of.  Nor do you.  Nor does our team.

Let me run this scenario by you.  Let's say you're the Texans.  You know Watson wants out.  You want him to stay.  What better way to keep him around than to make him appear to be completely toxic?  We've all been so focused on seeing it from our side, we've failed to see it from the other side.

My scenario protects our team if we trade.  We lose nothing if Watson is suspended.  The Texans gain nothing.  Bear that in mind.  My scenario was a hypothetical scenario where Watson is cleared.

Maybe he is guilty of . . . something?  I dunno.  The fact that no legal charges have been filed is a red flag.  I'm not even sure a REPORT has been filed.  Certainly no legal investigation.

A civil lawsuit is what happens when someone wants something but doesn't actually have a good legal case.  The burden of proof is SUBSTANTIALLY lower in a civil suit.  That's why those cases are typically settled quietly and out of court.

[Agent Blue]

5 hours ago, MGH1989 said:

You really want to give up assets for Watson amid a massive cloud of uncertainty for lawsuits that will take months and perhaps years to play out? That would be dumb as poo. I hope you all are prepared to either draft a rookie or stick with Teddy. Cause the Watson ship has sailed.

Which big time player that was accused of rap got sentenced to jail and missed many seasons? Hell even 1 season?

At worst Watson will settle in a civil suit and he will not be out of action long. 

Rap is a super tough thing to criminally prosecute / convict. 

I would not be worried about losing any assets. 

[MGH1989]

10 minutes ago, Agent Blue said:

Which big time player that was accused of rap got sentenced to jail and missed many seasons? Hell even 1 season?

At worst Watson will settle in a civil suit and he will not be out of action long. 

Rap is a super tough thing to criminally prosecute / convict. 

I would not be worried about losing any assets. 

Which big time player was accused by 20+ different women? You would have to be absolutely certain Watson did nothing wrong before you trade for him and there is no way to know that. It would be a complete fug up if the Panthers traded for someone who were to be found guilty under of this. If you want him you let this play out and then trade for him if and when he is exonerated. Until then it would be terrible mismanagement. Y’all need to move on from this Watson stuff. Ship had sailed.

[Agent Blue]

18 minutes ago, MGH1989 said:

Which big time player was accused by 20+ different women? You would have to be absolutely certain Watson did nothing wrong before you trade for him and there is no way to know that. It would be a complete fug up if the Panthers traded for someone who were to be found guilty under of this. If you want him you let this play out and then trade for him if and when he is exonerated. Until then it would be terrible mismanagement. Y’all need to move on from this Watson stuff. Ship had sailed.

20 women out of the blue during his dispute with houston. Yea not worried in the slightest. 

as I said, rap is damn near impossible to prove if you wait to go to the police. 

worst case he pays off some of these girls in a civil suit. 

[Seltzer]

9 minutes ago, MGH1989 said:

Which big time player was accused by 20+ different women? You would have to be absolutely certain Watson did nothing wrong before you trade for him and there is no way to know that. It would be a complete fug up if the Panthers traded for someone who were to be found guilty under of this. If you want him you let this play out and then trade for him if and when he is exonerated. Until then it would be terrible mismanagement. Y’all need to move on from this Watson stuff. Ship had sailed.

This... there's so much smoke at this point, you wouldn't be able to see the fire whether it's there or not... and enough smoke will kill even without seeing the fire.

Even in the very best of lights, Watson showed unbelievably bad judgement and put himself in compromising situations time and time (and time) again.

There is no good explanation for a franchise QB (who has access to professional massage therapists through the team anytime he wants or needs) to be seeking out multiple young, female "massage therapists" off Instagram (during a pandemic no less) and flying them in to perform a hybrid of legit massage therapy with other acts that are obviously more sexual in nature...

Watson at the very least put himself in positions again and again with multiple young females where he could blur the line of consent and justify overtly sexual acts as part of a "massage."

Even if nothing non-consensual happened (and that seems far less likely with the sheer volume of women), Watson was undoubtedly using his fame, power, and money to orchestrate an environment where these things not only could happen, but were likely to happen.

Watson obviously used these "massage therapy" sessions to fulfill his own sexual desires, and in many cases (again even in the best light) either mislead or outright lied to these women going into the sessions about what was expected only to continue to ask for more and more acts that went beyond normal massage therapy into sexual acts.

That's not behavior you want in the person most representing your franchise and someone you're committing to paying $100M+, even if it's not ultimately deemed criminal.

I wanted Deshaun Watson here so badly, for reasons both on and off the field.  But after these revelations, there's no way...

The Niners trading up to #3 was the first domino falling as teams move past the idea of trading for Watson.

The problem with the Panthers is that we went so far "all-in" on Watson, we don't have anywhere else to go...

 

[MGH1989]

Just now, Agent Blue said:

20 women out of the blue during his dispute with houston. Yea not worried in the slightest. 

as I said, rap is damn near impossible to prove if you wait to go to the police. 

worst case he pays off some of these girls in a civil suit. 

You’re projecting. You have no idea what the evidence is b/c none of this has even gone to litigation. You’re just assuming this can’t be real b/c of the timing. No one knows what happened other than Deshaun and the girls. You don’t know, I don’t know, and the Panthers don’t know. With that uncertainty it would be absolutely stupid to trade for him. You have to let the legal  process play out and that is gonna happen later rather than sooner. You also understand this is a civil lawsuit? The burden of proof is much lower than a criminal claim. In layman’s terms it’s basically a little over 50% chance. If the girls have texts and other evidence it’s not impossible to meet that burden. But again, no one knows the evidence. So, at this point trading for Watson would be absolutely batshit.