Interesting quote on Sam Darnold from the Athletic article grading all QB’s in this draft class

[Snake]

10 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Winston was successful except for the turnovers. He put up big time numbers he just turned the ball over too much. Meanwhile, Darnold's TD:INT ratio (1.15:1) is still significantly worse than Winston's (1.38:1).

Winston had a all star cast around him that bailed him out almost every game both on offense and defense. Darnald has garbage pretty much his entire time on the Jets. Winston's is so bad he was skipped over for a gadget guy by the Saints. 

[LinvilleGorge]

6 minutes ago, Snake said:

Winston had a all star cast around him that bailed him out almost every game both on offense and defense. Darnald has garbage pretty much his entire time on the Jets. Winston's is so bad he was skipped over for a gadget guy by the Saints. 

One of those garbage guys was a starting WR for us last year and will be again this year. He's pretty good too.

[Panthers8969]

Someone has got to explain to me what the fug prior second round picks by a completely different regime have to do with our future hit rate. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

17 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Does is what another coach said about Darnold

 

 

 

 

 

Is that you Adam Gaze?  It's funny that they don't identify who this genius Offensive Coach is.

He is a minority.  Most believe that given a good organization he'll be better.

 

[DaveThePanther2008]

Our options started with Stafford.  We were in contention and IMO Detroit made the worng choice because Goff is no better than TB. Goff isn't the savior in Detroit and many of those fans would have rather had TB even though he clearly isn't the answer.  Stafford has been around awhile and will start to decline soon.  So we would be looking to address QB later.

Next came Watson who was going to cost us a kings ransom to obtain.  Many on this board were onboard with giving up so much for him (including myself) That fell through because of his legal issues. 

Another option was trading up to get in the top 3.  Lawrence and Wilson are going to the teams slotted in their original order.  You may have been able to pry the #2 out of the NYJ but the cost would have been extreme.  The Jets did the right thing by waiting until after Wilson's pro day.  So he's slotted at #2.  SF is going to take a QB (Jones or Fields)  This is a gamble on both players because each have their question marks.  Many marvel at Fields athleticism but he has his question marks.  Atlanta IMO is staying put and will take either Pitts or Fields (if SF takes Jones).  Cincy will stay put and grab either Chase or Sewell.  Miami and Detroit may trade down depending which QBs are left.   My point is IMO all 5 QBs are going to be gone by pick 8 unless we trade up and give up our 1st next year.   That option seems too costly for a player that has as many question marks as Darnold has.

Option D as many say. Trade for Darnold.  You could also make the case that this was our second option after Stafford as we were inquiring about Darnold months ago. 

Is he a sure thing? No but he didn't cost nearly as what we would have had to give up for any of the remaining QBs and we would still have the same concerns.

I think what gets me is that the pessimistic folks on this forum about Darnold are not pessimistic about Fields, Lance and Jones (three remaining QBs that might be available at pick 8. 

They say he sucked in NYJ and therefore going to suck here, but don't think there aren't any concerns with Fields, Lance or Jones. 

[firefox1234]

1 hour ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I think what gets me is that the pessimistic folks on this forum about Darnold are not pessimistic about Fields, Lance and Jones (three remaining QBs that might be available at pick 8. 

They say he sucked in NYJ and therefore going to suck here, but don't think there aren't any concerns with Fields, Lance or Jones. 

This 100%. This.

[AU-panther]

9 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

One of those garbage guys was a starting WR for us last year and will be again this year. He's pretty good too.

Exactly.

People keep using some of the same arguments to defend Darnold, mainly the talent around him and the pressure he received, but there are stats out there that are somewhat concerning.

Here is an article about some of those

Why it would be a mistake for the Jets to stick with Sam Darnold | RSN (nbcsports.com)

For those too lazy to read one stat the quote that makes me nervous is that Darnold, with a clean pocket, was 30th in the league in accuracy and 33rd in adjusted completion percentage.  I don't care who your OC is but if you give a good QB a clean pocket you expect better than that.

Honestly that does match some of what I've seen on coach's tape, I will admit I haven't watched every game of his.

On the plus side, I was somewhat pleasantly surprised with his athleticism, I had not watched many Jet games before we had traded for him.  Also he definitely does have some arm talent, although the interceptions are concerning.

For him to successful here he is going to have to improve himself.  Its not just as easy as calling better plays or putting better players around him, both of those things will help, but there is going to have to be some growth in his own game.

 

 

 

[mrcompletely11]

6 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Exactly.

People keep using some of the same arguments to defend Darnold, mainly the talent around him and the pressure he received, but there are stats out there that are somewhat concerning.

Here is an article about some of those

Why it would be a mistake for the Jets to stick with Sam Darnold | RSN (nbcsports.com)

For those too lazy to read one stat the quote that makes me nervous is that Darnold, with a clean pocket, was 30th in the league in accuracy and 33rd in adjusted completion percentage.  I don't care who your OC is but if you give a good QB a clean pocket you expect better than that.

Honestly that does match some of what I've seen on coach's tape, I will admit I haven't watched every game of his.

On the plus side, I was somewhat pleasantly surprised with his athleticism, I had not watched many Jet games before we had traded for him.  Also he definitely does have some arm talent, although the interceptions are concerning.

For him to successful here he is going to have to improve himself.  Its not just as easy as calling better plays or putting better players around him, both of those things will help, but there is going to have to be some growth in his own game.

 

 

 

There are so many ways to debate that stat.  We already did it.  When I get back to my computer I will explain why that is a dumb stat all things considered.  

[SOJA]

Here's the way I look at the Darnold situation. 

A.) if you get your franchise QB for a second round pick, you do that 100/100 times no brainer.

b.) the dolphins recently traded away a second rounder for Rosen, who is a complete bust, look how much draft capital they have. Fitts knows the value of trading back and down. I fully suspect we trade down at some point this year to recuperate assessts

c.) while we won't get much for teddy I still think he has trade value. 

d.) if fields falls you still draft him at 8. You can NEVER have too many options at QB. New England had Tom in his prime and still took Jimmy G

[OldhamA]

18 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Exactly.

People keep using some of the same arguments to defend Darnold, mainly the talent around him and the pressure he received, but there are stats out there that are somewhat concerning.

Here is an article about some of those

Why it would be a mistake for the Jets to stick with Sam Darnold | RSN (nbcsports.com)

For those too lazy to read one stat the quote that makes me nervous is that Darnold, with a clean pocket, was 30th in the league in accuracy and 33rd in adjusted completion percentage.  I don't care who your OC is but if you give a good QB a clean pocket you expect better than that.

Honestly that does match some of what I've seen on coach's tape, I will admit I haven't watched every game of his.

On the plus side, I was somewhat pleasantly surprised with his athleticism, I had not watched many Jet games before we had traded for him.  Also he definitely does have some arm talent, although the interceptions are concerning.

For him to successful here he is going to have to improve himself.  Its not just as easy as calling better plays or putting better players around him, both of those things will help, but there is going to have to be some growth in his own game.

 

 

 

I really wish there was another source of statistical analysis than PFF. 

They burned their credibility with me years ago.

[ForJimmy]

The clean pocket stat can be misleading. If there isn’t a clean pocket more times than not even with a clean pocket the QB is expecting pressure. It’s how David Carr’s career got ruined. He always had happy feet and was expecting to get tackled even when there was a clean pocket. Gase’s play calling did him no favors. Think Shula’s stubbornness of not leaving a TE or extra help on the line while drawing up long developing plays. Not the best idea for a rookie with a terrible line.
My main concern with Darnold is his alarming number of turnovers in college against PAC 12 defenses...  I know he was relatively new to the QB position, but he hasn’t shown he isn’t a turnover machine yet on either level (I can almost give him a pass on the Jets shitty situation). If he was this raw potential talent that can be coached up, more teams would have been trying to trade for him and we would have had to give up more for him. My expectations are hopeful with a healthy amount of doubt... 

[LinvilleGorge]

16 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

There are so many ways to debate that stat.  We already did it.  When I get back to my computer I will explain why that is a dumb stat all things considered.  

#1 on the list... I desperately want the stat to be dumb because I desperately want Darnold to be the answer. 

Let's be real, we'd be laughing our asses off if we still had a healthy Cam (or any good QB for that matter) and a desperate flailing division rival made this trade and hitched their wagon to Sam Darnold and for good reason.

[OldhamA]

3 minutes ago, SOJA said:

Here's the way I look at the Darnold situation. 

A.) if you get your franchise QB for a second round pick, you do that 100/100 times no brainer.

b.) the dolphins recently traded away a second rounder for Rosen, who is a complete bust, look how much draft capital they have. Fitts knows the value of trading back and down. I fully suspect we trade down at some point this year to recuperate assessts

c.) while we won't get much for teddy I still think he has trade value. 

d.) if fields falls you still draft him at 8. You can NEVER have too many options at QB. New England had Tom in his prime and still took Jimmy G

We traded the equivalent of our 3rd round pick this year for Darnold. 

If you're desperate to physically get back those 2nd, 4th and 6th round picks you can EASILY do that by trading down a few spots in this Draft. 

[bythenbrs]

4 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

For him to [be] successful here he is going to have to improve himself.  Its not just as easy as calling better plays or putting better players around him, both of those things will help, but there is going to have to be some growth in his own game.

Absolutely true.  He has to improve.  He has to want to improve.

The fact that Fitterer and Rhule acquired him tells me that they believe their staff can coach him up and realize some/more/all of the potential that made him the third overall pick several years ago.

This young man is only 23 but with 3 years of NFL starting experience.  He heard the boos and media criticism as he and the Jets underperformed.  He now has a life and career ‘do over’ opportunity, with a team that traded FOR him.  I would think he would be highly motivated to prove the critics wrong in their prior judgment that he is a bust.

With our coaching staff, he has the potential to be Jake 2.0.  If the stars align, he could be more.  YMMV