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Love Jaycee Horn and he was third on my board, but...


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1 minute ago, Mage said:

And if Fields and Jones end up being busts?

Look, I get what you are saying.  But the draft is a crapshoot.  There are so many ways this could play out.  

1) Horn busts, Darnold succeeds, Fields succeeds

2) Horn succeeds, Darnold busts, Fields busts

3) Horn succeeds, Darnold busts, Fields busts

4) Horn busts, Darnold succeeds, Fields busts

So on and so forth.

It isn't like we're the only team that passed on Fields.  And look, I LIKE Fields, but I also think it is telling that it was the team that was BY FAR the most desperate in the NFL that traded up for Fields.  NFL teams were clearly a lot more down on Fields than fans/analysts were, and that should speak volumes. 

People said the same thing about Haskins and how he fell and how the Giants screwed up.  And yeah, Daniel Jones hasn't been good, but he's been better than Haskins.
 

At the end of the day, as hard as it is, we need to just be patient.  Nobody knows what is going to happen.  And the idea that the team should just blindly throw darts at the QB position until it works out is how you end up with a terrible team.

I love the Horn pick.  We've had a horrible secondary for what feels like forever; even when Norman was here, it was only held together by veterans and band-aids.

And yeah, if Fields works out, it will sting.  But that isn't a guarantee.  We just gotta wait and see.  But everyone lamenting it as a huge mistake must think that good prospects always work out and that just isn't the case.  The fact is, out of the 5 QBs in the 1st round, at least 2 in all likelihood will bust.  I doubt that is Trevor, leaving Wilson/Fields/Jones/Lance.  1 is going to be Lance.  Not sure about the other... sounds crazy but I like Jones' chances in New England under Beli/McD a LOT more than I do Fields in Chicago.

I agree.  Just wanted to share my concerns.  Like I said, I LOVE Horn and wanted him, even at 8 if that's how it shook out, and it did...  but, I was surprised Fields was still there too.  The lamenting after the fact is really because I believe in Fields more than Darnold, and no matter what else we do this offseason, everything hinges on whether or not Darnold is even an average QB, and that's scary.

Regardless of that, I definitely look forward to seeing Horn develop into the dominant force I think he will become.

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3 minutes ago, mcsmoak said:

Is it possible we’re still in on Deshaun Watson behind the scenes?  Watson is screwed right now but once everything comes out I’m guessing he gets a year suspension tops 

Doubt it.

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I hope it all works out for the best but we have basically mortgaged the immediate future of the franchise on the statistically worst QB in the NFL. I'll hope otherwise, but these situations usually play out predictably.

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4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I hope it all works out for the best but we have basically mortgaged the immediate future of the franchise on the statistically worst QB in the NFL. I'll hope otherwise, but these situations usually play out predictably.

Come on man.  That is a MASSIVE exaggeration.

Dolphins used a 2nd round pick on Josh Rosen in 2019, and he barely played for them.  And yet they went 10-6 last year.  And I'd argue we are in a much better position entering 2019 than the Dolphins were, considering everyone and their momma predicted them to finish with the league's worst record that season.

I get you aren't a fan of Darnold.  But to say we mortgaged our immediate future?  Nah.  If he sucks it will be a bummer to not have that 2nd round pick next year but it is far from mortgaging the future, especially when you consider the sheer amount of cap space we are slated to have next year. 

That is the beauty of the NFL.  There are opportunities to improve your team every year unless you are both in cap hell and don't have any draft capital (see: Texans).  There will be opportunities to get a QB again, especially if Darnold fails as spectacularly as you predict.

Edited by Mage
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4 minutes ago, Mage said:

Come on man.  That is a MASSIVE exaggeration.

Dolphins used a 2nd round pick on Josh Rosen in 2019, and he barely played for them.  And yet they went 10-6 last year.  And I'd argue we are in a much better position entering 2019 than the Dolphins were, considering everyone and their momma predicted them to finish with the league's worst record that season.

I get you aren't a fan of Darnold.  But to say we mortgaged our immediate future?  Nah.  If he sucks it will be a bummer to not have that 2nd round pick next year but it is far from mortgaging the future, especially when you consider the sheer amount of cap space we are slated to have next year. 

That is the beauty of the NFL.  There are opportunities to improve your team every year unless you are both in cap hell and don't have any draft capital (see: Texans).  There will be opportunities to get a QB again, especially if Darnold fails as spectacularly as you predict.

It's really not. Opportunity cost is real. We had the opportunity to draft a potential franchise QB and we passed because we had Sam Darnold. That's placing a big bet on Darnold.

 

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7 minutes ago, Mage said:

Come on man.  That is a MASSIVE exaggeration.

Dolphins used a 2nd round pick on Josh Rosen in 2019, and he barely played for them.  And yet they went 10-6 last year. 

They had Ryan Fitzpatrick. We have Will Grier.

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6 minutes ago, Mage said:

Come on man.  That is a MASSIVE exaggeration.

Dolphins used a 2nd round pick on Josh Rosen in 2019, and he barely played for them.  And yet they went 10-6 last year.  And I'd argue we are in a much better position entering 2019 than the Dolphins were, considering everyone and their momma predicted them to finish with the league's worst record that season.

I get you aren't a fan of Darnold.  But to say we mortgaged our immediate future?  Nah.  If he sucks it will be a bummer to not have that 2nd round pick next year but it is far from mortgaging the future, especially when you consider the sheer amount of cap space we are slated to have next year. 

That is the beauty of the NFL.  There are opportunities to improve your team every year unless you are both in cap hell and don't have any draft capital (see: Texans).  There will be opportunities to get a QB again, especially if Darnold fails as spectacularly as you predict.

Come on man, didn’t you know that Darnold is:

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.
the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

Well, I’m not sure how many times I have to say it before it becomes true, but sooner or later it’s gotta.

 

 

 

 

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No doubt he could become a good player but he's not a franchise QB. Fields is a winner and I can only guess why he dropped was because of medical concerns.

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Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

It's really not. Opportunity cost is real. We had the opportunity to draft a potential franchise QB and we passed because we had Sam Darnold.

This is horrendous logic though.  I'm sorry dude but it is.  You don't know how Fields is going to turn out.  What if we drafted Fields and he busted?  That puts us in an even worse situation, because now we wasted draft capital on 2 QBs who didn't work out.  That has the same likelihood as him being a franchise QB.

And again, this isn't me arguing against Fields.  I liked Fields, if not loved him as a prospect, and would gladly have welcomed him here.  But you are flat-out, 100% exaggerating when you say we mortgaged your future.  I literally just gave you an example of a team who did exactly what we did, got even less return on the field than we are likely to get with Darnold, and who ended up doing just fine the year following.  

Again, if Darnold fails like you say he will, then the Panthers will pick top 10 again next year.  And again, there will be 3-4 QB prospects that people talk about in the 1st round, and 2 of them will fall... like it happens every single year.  And Panthers will have a shot at one of them.  

It isn't the end of the world.  Nobody knows how any of this will play out.  Even if it is "predictable" that Darnold will fail, nobody knows how Fields will turn out.  Again, clearly NFL teams didn't think as highly of Fields as we did, and it took the most desperate team in the NFL trading up for him.  Sure players fall all the time but when it is a CB, and multiple QB needy teams pass on you?  Yeah, I think we should take a step back and really reconsider how much of a "can't-miss" prospect he actually is, or how some of you are making him out to be.

I just want to know.  If Fields does terribly this year and looks like another Ohio State QB, and Horn does very well, are you still going to say it is a bad pick because of opportunity cost?

And that right there is why I think calling anything a "bad pick" before football is played isn't sensible.  Because how can it be a bad pick right now, but suddenly be a good pick next year?  So until we see how this plays out, making statements like "we mortgaged our immediate future" are just completely off-base.

If we had passed on Haskins when he fell years ago, ya'll would have been saying the same thing.  "We could have gotten a potential franchise QB."  But ish isn't guaranteed, especially for QBs.  

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3 minutes ago, Peppers90 NC said:

Come on man, didn’t you know that Darnold is:

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.
the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

the statistically worst QB in the NFL.

Well, I’m not sure how many times I have to say it before it becomes true, but sooner or later it’s gotta.

 

 

 

 

The thing is, I'm not even saying I think Darnold will work out.  I just think it is ridiculous how quick people want to call a pick bad or say we mortgaged our future before football is played.

Ya'll do realize WAY better prospects than Justin Fields have done terribly in the NFL, right?  It isn't like anything I'm saying is outlandish.  I'm just asking for a wait-and-see approach.  If we, like other teams, don't think Fields can be a franchise QB, then we made the choice we feel is best for us.  We'd be in a WAY worse spot if we took Fields 8 and he and Darnold both flopped.

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5 minutes ago, Mage said:

This is horrendous logic though.  I'm sorry dude but it is.  You don't know how Fields is going to turn out.  What if we drafted Fields and he busted?  That puts us in an even worse situation, because now we wasted draft capital on 2 QBs who didn't work out.  That has the same likelihood as him being a franchise QB.

And again, this isn't me arguing against Fields.  I liked Fields, if not loved him as a prospect, and would gladly have welcomed him here.  But you are flat-out, 100% exaggerating when you say we mortgaged your future.  I literally just gave you an example of a team who did exactly what we did, got even less return on the field than we are likely to get with Darnold, and who ended up doing just fine the year following.  

Again, if Darnold fails like you say he will, then the Panthers will pick top 10 again next year.  And again, there will be 3-4 QB prospects that people talk about in the 1st round, and 2 of them will fall... like it happens every single year.  And Panthers will have a shot at one of them.  

It isn't the end of the world.  Nobody knows how any of this will play out.  Even if it is "predictable" that Darnold will fail, nobody knows how Fields will turn out.  Again, clearly NFL teams didn't think as highly of Fields as we did, and it took the most desperate team in the NFL trading up for him.  Sure players fall all the time but when it is a CB, and multiple QB needy teams pass on you?  Yeah, I think we should take a step back and really reconsider how much of a "can't-miss" prospect he actually is, or how some of you are making him out to be.

I just want to know.  If Fields does terribly this year and looks like another Ohio State QB, and Horn does very well, are you still going to say it is a bad pick because of opportunity cost?

And that right there is why I think calling anything a "bad pick" before football is played isn't sensible.  Because how can it be a bad pick right now, but suddenly be a good pick next year?  So until we see how this plays out, making statements like "we mortgaged our immediate future" are just completely off-base.

If we had passed on Haskins when he fell years ago, ya'll would have been saying the same thing.  "We could have gotten a potential franchise QB."  But ish isn't guaranteed, especially for QBs.  

You could've saved yourself a lot of typing by simply saying, "I don't understand the concept of opportunity cost."

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