Burns vs Reddick

[AU-panther]

Not so much which one is better, but which one makes the most sense to resign.  This discussion could actually apply to general team building and whether you should resign your own players or trade them before they become expensive (and get picks) and use that money to sign free agents.

Our choices, and we will assume we don't want to spend the cap to resign both, although I actually think we might.

Let Reddick walk this year, hope to get a 3rd round comp pick (although we haven't shown a propensity to chase comp picks yet under Rhule) and resign Burns next year for $20m a year.  I know $20m sounds high, and some are down on Burns, but in this league if you can get to a QB teams will pay.

or

Sign Reddick for $14m a year and trade Burns for a 1st round pick or maybe some combination of later picks.  Here again I think he would get more on the trade market than some realize.  You always have to factor in the player's contract when accessing their value.  You don't trade a player, you trade their contract and his is really good right now.  He has one year left on a cheap rookie deal and then the 5th year option.  

Should a team consider trading their own players a year early, to get picks and then use the money saved to spend on free agents that really don't cost them a pick outside of the potential compensatory pick.  

We could apply this same logic to Moore.  Should the team pay him $18m a year or trade him for picks and use that $18m for someone like Allen Robinson or Chris Godwin?

If you decide to make a habit a resigning your own players, you should at least play the comp pick game somewhat.  

 

 

[PootieNunu]

Its like water vs slightly older water. They both struggle to set the edge and stop the run, they both can get after the passer. 

[LinvilleGorge]

I'm resigning Burns and letting Reddick walk and taking that comp pick.

How about a third option? Transition to a legit 3-4 scheme and keep both.

 

[AU-panther]

7 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm resigning Burns and letting Reddick walk and taking that comp pick.

How about a third option? Transition to a legit 3-4 scheme and keep both.

 

With Rhule on the hot seat I really don't see him having the discipline to play the comp pick game.  Even if he did that would be next year's comp pick and another coach might get to use it.

I was mostly presenting the question in regard to general team building and which choice helps the team overall and long term, with the situation we are in we probably won't be making decisions with that in mind.

My guess is we resign Reddick and worry about Burns next year because our whole staff knows they might not be here.

I'm actually a bit nervous that we are not only going to overpay other free agents but our own since it has to be viewed a make-or-break year.

 

 

 

 

[Sgt Schultz]

Philosophically, it is not as easy as one or the other.  You have to look at the players involved, their cost, how fat or thin you are at the position, if you think they will still be productive in 3 years, injury concerns, what you honestly think you will get in return, etc.  It is really a case-by-case basis.  I'd generally prefer to hold onto our own talent, but that doesn't always make the most sense. 

This situation is more of a mess because our defense also regressed after about week three of last season.  That makes it a lot tougher to evaluate.

[Seltzer]

4 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

 

This situation is more of a mess because our defense also regressed after about week three of last season.  That makes it a lot tougher to evaluate.

IMO a lot of the defensive issues can be mitigated by having an offense that can actually pull their weight and not keep them on the field so much.

I think that had a lot to do with them breaking down both physically and mentally as the season progressed.

Not saying there wasn't some regression, but I think 75% of it was due to the complete lack of complementary football from our offense and to a lesser extent special teams

[SmokinwithWilly]

1 hour ago, AU-panther said:

Not so much which one is better, but which one makes the most sense to resign.  This discussion could actually apply to general team building and whether you should resign your own players or trade them before they become expensive (and get picks) and use that money to sign free agents.

Our choices, and we will assume we don't want to spend the cap to resign both, although I actually think we might.

Let Reddick walk this year, hope to get a 3rd round comp pick (although we haven't shown a propensity to chase comp picks yet under Rhule) and resign Burns next year for $20m a year.  I know $20m sounds high, and some are down on Burns, but in this league if you can get to a QB teams will pay.

or

Sign Reddick for $14m a year and trade Burns for a 1st round pick or maybe some combination of later picks.  Here again I think he would get more on the trade market than some realize.  You always have to factor in the player's contract when accessing their value.  You don't trade a player, you trade their contract and his is really good right now.  He has one year left on a cheap rookie deal and then the 5th year option.  

Should a team consider trading their own players a year early, to get picks and then use the money saved to spend on free agents that really don't cost them a pick outside of the potential compensatory pick.  

We could apply this same logic to Moore.  Should the team pay him $18m a year or trade him for picks and use that $18m for someone like Allen Robinson or Chris Godwin?

If you decide to make a habit a resigning your own players, you should at least play the comp pick game somewhat.  

 

 

Unfortunately we don't have the coach to play this what if game. 

[Sgt Schultz]

20 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

IMO a lot of the defensive issues can be mitigated by having an offense that can actually pull their weight and not keep them on the field so much.

I think that had a lot to do with them breaking down both physically and mentally as the season progressed.

Not saying there wasn't some regression, but I think 75% of it was due to the complete lack of complementary football from our offense and to a lesser extent special teams

I agree with you.  Our offense specialized in 3 and outs, it seemed.  Even if the defense got off the field, having to go out three plays and a punt later didn't do them any favors.

Add it to the list of things that is pretty hard to gauge because the team was so inept in so many phases.

[TheMaulClaw]

It doesnt matter if the D has to stay on the field 3 quarters of the game.

[jbland]

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm resigning Burns and letting Reddick walk and taking that comp pick.

How about a third option? Transition to a legit 3-4 scheme and keep both.

 

We just tried that a few years ago. I still have nightmares. Love him or not, Rivera is a legit coach. 

[micnificent28]

3 minutes ago, jbland said:

We just tried that a few years ago. I still have nightmares. Love him or not, Rivera is a legit coach. 

Yeah But with 4-3 personnel. 3-4 works well for many teams but takes a commitment. Not a overnight thing plenty of the top defenses in the league run a 3-4.

[kass]

If Reddick is resigned, would he be worth a first or second rounder next year if he has a similiar season?

Significant more than the third round comp pick he would bring in if not resigned. 

Use the extra 1/2 rounder to move up in the draft next year along with other draft capital. (If the trade partner want him, he could also be included in the trade up)

And go get the QB.

Because that will not be solved this off season.

[Khyber53]

2 hours ago, Sgt Schultz said:

 

This situation is more of a mess because our defense also regressed after about week three of last season.  That makes it a lot tougher to evaluate.

This 1000%. How do you really evaluate this situation? How do you set contracts for the next coach beyond 2022?

[jbland]

1 hour ago, micnificent28 said:

Yeah But with 4-3 personnel. 3-4 works well for many teams but takes a commitment. Not a overnight thing plenty of the top defenses in the league run a 3-4.

Maybe. I’m not sure we had 3-4 or 4-3. Maybe a combo. The real problem I see with this team is lack of a long term plan or lack of leadership to implement said plan.