Let's talk about our Defense

[Shocker]

Meh, the only significant defensive loss was Reddick IMO.  This defense will be really good not concerned at all

[ForJimmy]

4 hours ago, poundaway said:

The only stat that matter is games won.

Allow 0 points and they will never lose! 
Seriously it’s hard to really measure our defense last year. Our offense was so bad the other team constantly had the ball with good field positioning from turnovers. This made it where we allowed less yards, but more points. They also preferred to run vs pass against us. This can shorten a game and allow less possessions. It also made our pass defense look better than it probably really was. 

[CPantherKing]

20 hours ago, PootieNunu said:

A off ball LB at 6 was not the best choice in any world or any draft. If thats what you are looking for you might want to switch teams, Hurney is gone.

I think you are the only one who wasnt tired of taking late round crap OL prospects to take a LB high. 

 

Like my choices of David Bakhtiari, Terron Armstead, La'el Collins, Trey Smith, Jon Runyan, David Edwards, Orlando Brown Jr, Billy Turner? Those are the OTs I wanted over the past 10 seasons in mid to late rounds. Only 2 OTs I wanted that did not make it in the past 10 seasons. The Green Bay Packers and Kansas City Chiefs front office consistently line up with my OT evaluation.

I'm not the scouting department that pumps Cade Mays, Dennis Daley, Deonte Brown, and Brady Christensen. Christensen is the only one I kept on my list as a possible 6th or 7th round pick but considered him a career reserve OL.

The problem is not mid to late round OTs. The problem is the front office that evaluates them and keeps them on a list/board of players to draft.

I evaluated Ekwonu as a bust at OT and possible franchise OG. I hope I am wrong.

The only tackles the Panthers have ever taken that were on my list are Jordan Gross, Travelle Wharton, and Norberto Davidds-Garrido.

Edited May 8, 2022 by CPantherKing

[CPantherKing]

20 hours ago, PootieNunu said:

A off ball LB at 6 was not the best choice in any world or any draft. If thats what you are looking for you might want to switch teams, Hurney is gone.

I think you are the only one who wasnt tired of taking late round crap OL prospects to take a LB high. 

Also, my off ball 1st round LBs I wanted since I have been a Panthers fan...

Derrick Brooks, Brian Urlacher, Thomas Davis, and Shaq Thompson. Turns out 2 are in the Hall of Fame and 2 were Panthers LBs. Consider that 3 of the 4 have been defensive leaders for SB defenses. Now, I add Devin Lloyd to that list. Other LBs I would have drafted in the 1st round are Ray Lewis, Lavar Arrington, Terrell Suggs, Shawne Merriman, Derrick Johnson, Jon Beason, Von Miller, Luke Kuechly, Khalil Mack, and TJ Watt.

I would have traded down for Lloyd, but I would not have missed out on drafting him as a championship franchise leader and playmaker. I won't just take any LB in the 1st round. Thompson is my worst 1st round LB grade.

All of these LBs are better than any franchise 1st round OT with success. Always take these kind of LBs in the 1st round and opt for an OT later in the draft if there are any worth starting as a possible franchise OT. 2022 was a rare draft loaded with OT talent all the way to the 7th round.

[Michael G]

19 hours ago, pantherj said:

In this video Chinn talks about being out of gaps and communication being an issue as well. Shaq looked really pissed at Chinn a few times when he did not fill his gap and floated backwards, or hardly moved when he needed to be coming downhill into his gap.

Thanks for the video- I did not see Chinn's responses has referring to himself specifically as far as being out of gaps. The reporter asked him a team ? about stopping the run. Chinn answered with "We". 

I do not doubt he had some responsibilities on some plays though. Better understanding of his responsibilities will definitely help this defense. 

[ForJimmy]

People on here playing hindsight GM/NFL Scout…. Easiest job in the world is to draft players AFTER you see what kind of careers they have. 

[pantherj]

4 hours ago, Michael G said:

Thanks for the video- I did not see Chinn's responses has referring to himself specifically as far as being out of gaps. The reporter asked him a team ? about stopping the run. Chinn answered with "We". 

I do not doubt he had some responsibilities on some plays though. Better understanding of his responsibilities will definitely help this defense. 

Chinn reads gaps and has run stopping responsibilities. Now typically you'll see him way back or at the middle of the field. The problems would show up when has to come down and that's when I saw mistakes from both him and our LBs. We have two bad LBs, and one good one (Shaq). When it came down to Shaq and Chinn is was usually Chinn who made the mistake. When it was Chinn and one of our poop LBs it was the LB who usually made the mistake. I don't remember off hand which games Chinn had the errors, but the tv crew replayed one of them in slow motion.

I thin I'll look at the Vikings game highlights and see if that shows anything. I'm picking that game at random and I only have the highlights.

  The saddest part about this play is seeing Brown taking on a double team for nothing haha. Where are his teammates??

[iamhubby1]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:29 AM, poundaway said:

At the end of the season our D was:
2nd best in yards allowed
3rd best in yards allowed  per play
4th best in first downs allowed
4th best in passes allowed
4th best in passing yards allowed
2nd best in passing first downs allowed
This one surprised me:   8th best in RUSHING yards allowed per attempt

We lost Reddick.   YGM's stats extrapolated looks similar to Burns, so I don't know how big a drop off we're going to see here. 

As for the big left side runs  that hurt us, Burns needs to up his run D, and Page is gone.  Damien Wilson, who started 16 games when the Chiefs won the superbowl appears to be slotted there.  He is a step up, definitely, from Page.  Wilson has some legal issues at the moment.  Brandon Smith is a raw rookie with elite speed may see the field more than originally planned. 


Meanwhile our offense was:
32nd in yards per play
31st in turnovers
29th in points
29th in 3rd down conversions
Helping our O should help the D.  We have a new experienced and previously successful OC, 3 new linemen, a new bruising RB,  and new rookie QB with the quickest release in the class and rated #1 in the class by our OC and some other draftniks.

 

 

You may be speaking the truth, but it is falling on mostly deaf ears. Those that don't see it, don't want to see it. They just know our D sucked. It had to, because we sucked. Their hate won't allow them to see any positives. Only the negatives.

 

Between the Draft, and FA a lot of Huddlerz have returned  to the fold. But there is still a rather large contingent of haters, who still bring the negativity. 

 

That said. This post should be a thread. Let everyone know that our D wasn't as bad as some will have you believe.

[pantherj]

Oh and btw that run play we just looked at was 3 and 1, and the Viking RB got a 30 yard gain. 30 yards. It's not a talent problem, it's mental mistakes.

[Catsfan69]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:36 PM, pantherj said:

One area defense we make a mistake with, if I had to complain, is the DE position. Brain Burns is a good pass rusher, but we needed a much bigger DE at his spot who can still rush the passer. Burns being undersized is a problem, but it's hard to fix that. You sub him out and they pass. You leave him in and they run. If we had a bigger DE at his spot who could rush the passer that would fix things.

He's not a good pass rusher.

He's an average pass rusher and run liability. 

 

He needs to make a huge leap this year.

[Basbear]

Best defense???

Please for the love of god dont expect that from this group.

I think the most realistic high point for the defense is 12th.

They have to be the youngest unit by far, with that comes speed and mistakes. 

I think Shaq, Djack, and Burns are still below 26 and they are the "old" ones. (new LB littleton is older i think). 

 

[TrevorLaurenceTime22]

On 5/6/2022 at 3:16 PM, poundaway said:

I would not underestimate the loss of Reddick.  YGM has good numbers, but not as good as Burns and certainly not as good as Reddick. 

I'm not sure Littleton or Luvu are the answer at LB.  We had a solution with Perryman last year, but we let him go due to his lack of participation in OTAs and being unvaxed.

And CJ Henderson looked horrible last year.  If that is what to expect from him, his man/area will be target one every game.

 

Reddick was also the biggest weakness in rush defense.... well him and Carter.

[TrevorLaurenceTime22]

3 hours ago, pantherj said:

Oh and btw that run play we just looked at was 3 and 1, and the Viking RB got a 30 yard gain. 30 yards. It's not a talent problem, it's mental mistakes.

When you stack the box on short yardage plays its often either a stuff or a long run not much in between. *recalls Cedric Benson rumbling 89 yards on third and one vs Miami in 05*

[Michael G]

19 hours ago, pantherj said:

Chinn reads gaps and has run stopping responsibilities. Now typically you'll see him way back or at the middle of the field. The problems would show up when has to come down and that's when I saw mistakes from both him and our LBs.

Maybe this is the reason the team seem so determined to keep him more as the FS than the SS.