Real Talk

[KillaCamNewton]

7 hours ago, JawnyBlaze said:

I’ll never understand this “blow everything up” mentality. I can only assume it’s petulance. You don’t build a good team by discarding all the good players. The only good player that should even be considered is CMC and ONLY if we get a significant return for him. I only say him because of the risk of injury and probable longevity at that position.  Otherwise, people saying trade Burns, Chinn, DJ, we’re not likely to get equal in the draft with whatever picks we get for them. Probably not even close. Makes no sense. 

A team like the Giants looked to be in a worse situation than us a year ago and now theyre 5-1. Im not gettting rid of any of our young talented players until we see what kind of coach and QB we end up with in the offseason. Cap space and draft capital doesnt translate to wins on the field. Players and coaches do. I honestly dont think Rhule had a bad approach to building the team other than the QB situation. If Herbert falls one more pick to us were probably sitting here right now talking about how quickly we built one of the youngest and most talented teams in the league in less than 3 years

[Jmac]

8 hours ago, Waldo said:

Anyone that gets a rediculous bid and any vet on a 2nd contract. The guys on rookie contracts should be safe. Horn, Brown, Ickey, Chinn, BC and whoever I am forgetting are solid building blocks on the cheap.

Load up o 2023 and 2024 picks.

Team has to have a baseline to build from. They just can't blow the whole thing up. There is some talent here (believe it or not.) Keep the core that are players and jettison the rest. 

[PghPanther]

All hail to the Panthers!!!!

Carolina's football team!!!!

Panthers in the NFL is like putting putting ketchup on steak.........or chewing gum with your wife.

 

[mrcompletely11]

7 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm equally mystified by the notion that a single game tells us everything there is to know.

wait, wut?

[mrcompletely11]

21 minutes ago, Jmac said:

Team has to have a baseline to build from. They just can't blow the whole thing up. There is some talent here (believe it or not.) Keep the core that are players and jettison the rest. 

Where is the talent?  We have a few decent olineman, a good pass rusher, a good tackle and a good running back.  What am I missing?

[Waldo]

47 minutes ago, Jmac said:

Team has to have a baseline to build from. They just can't blow the whole thing up. There is some talent here (believe it or not.) Keep the core that are players and jettison the rest. 

Yup. I think we lose some we want to keep but that want a change after this kind of failure.

[joemac]

9 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I thought you said we were going to shock the world.   

I can admit when I am wrong.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, joemac said:

I can admit when I am wrong.

I know I am just giving you poo, you cool

[BIGH2001]

2 hours ago, KillaCamNewton said:

A team like the Giants looked to be in a worse situation than us a year ago and now theyre 5-1. Im not gettting rid of any of our young talented players until we see what kind of coach and QB we end up with in the offseason. Cap space and draft capital doesnt translate to wins on the field. Players and coaches do. I honestly dont think Rhule had a bad approach to building the team other than the QB situation. If Herbert falls one more pick to us were probably sitting here right now talking about how quickly we built one of the youngest and most talented teams in the league in less than 3 years

Lol

[JawnyBlaze]

8 hours ago, AU-panther said:

I agree thatt you can't always be getting rid of all of your players but you have to factor in the cap.

The players you get in the draft don't have to be as good, you are forgetting about the cap savings.

Lets say player A is a really good player about to off of his rookie contract.  2 options here, pay player A $20m a year, or trade player a for a 2nd round pick and use the $20m to sign a player in free agency that is almost just as good.  The pick is almost just bonus.

Brian Burns with a $8m cap hit doesn't have the same value as a $32m cap hit.

This is the problem with being this bad, we are missing on taking advantage of some good players on cheap contracts.  Lets say we go the rookie QB route next year, even if you select the right one, realistically you are really looking at 2-3 years before being really competitive. 

 

 

The cap can be worked without giving away your good young players at a loss in value. The Giants were terrible with a terrible QB last year. They look pretty competitive to me. Bengals went from #1 overall to in the Super Bowl.  We get the right coach and QB combo, there’s no waiting period on how fast we can be competitive. Just boils down to getting those two spots right. 

[JawnyBlaze]

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Where is the talent?  We have a few decent olineman, a good pass rusher, a good tackle and a good running back.  What am I missing?

A good WR, a good LB, a great secondary, a really good DT and another good DT. Pretty much most of the team except QB and TE. 

[JawnyBlaze]

8 hours ago, onmyown said:

You’re not understanding it because you don’t appear to be considering the cap. It isn’t looking great. Money was spent on sub par players like Anderson and Thomas. Shaq’s contract makes me want to vomit. DJ is a mediocre contract but if his motivation falls anymore off a cliff it will turn to bad. And that’s likely, 

You have to consider the future, and in saying that you have to realize when getting a pick is better than having to let a player walk.

Historically, the Panthers have been god awful at realizing this. And historically the Panthers are a bad team. However if you look at other teams, keeping a healthy cap by making solid moves before forced by hand and then being able to sign the RIGHT players/pieces at will (Bills) are signs of a proper rebuild, and not being stuck.

Sometimes hard choices need to be made, you hate to see it, but you see it all over the NFL all the time. You can’t sign Chinn, Brown, and Burns…you just can’t. You need to consider timing.

However ideally the new coach and his vision/plan should big a huge factor, only problem is 5th year options and/or pissing a player off not paying them when you’re trying to figure things out and you risk letting them walk. Tag and trade is always an option but you then basically waste your tag and makes trade talks more difficult.

So yea, it’s not just about the player.

 

I’m absolutely considering the cap and the only bad contract we have is Shaq (and Anderson but he’s gone anyway). No one is trading for him. DJ’s contract is a steal since Hill and Kirk and those guys blew up the WR market.  The cap can be managed. You can’t just throw away good players because you’re afraid of the cap. We absolutely can sign Burns and then later Brown and Chinn. The cap killer is the QB and we won’t have to pay big QB money for a while. 

[PanthersGTI]

You keep the young defense. You keep the O-line starters. WRs, RBs, QBs are all open game. 

[d-dave]

I can see the appeal of blowing things up and getting picks for guys, but it's just not that easy.  

First, as soon as "fire sale" goes through the NFL, all values are depreciated.  Teams will wait and get the deal they want.  They aren't going to throw 1s when they can get our players for 3s and 5s in a few week before the deadline.

Second, we can't "worry" about the cap and then talk about eating 10s of millions of dollars in dead cap cash.  Robby is $20 by himself, and he's probably getting cut this week.  CMC is like $30.  DJ or DJax just signed deals so that would be a lot of dead money as well.  Guys are under contract.   They are going to have to play, that's just the way it is.

Third, the draft is a crapshoot.  We all know this.  Fitterer has a mixed bag of draft history, but it's hard to qualify because of the Rhule effect.  While on one hand, it's better to have more shots at players, it's another to bet your entire future on rookies.

Finally, if we can get the right coach, then we can see our fortunes change.  That's just the reality of things.  Year after year, teams who suck get better coaching and they turn it around.  We have some really good pieces on D, and our OL is MILES better than it's been in a long time.  DJ is a quality player, and CMC is one of the best in the NFL (when healthy).  

So if in 2023, we get a better coach, get lucky with the QB selection, then there's little reason that 2023 won't be a LOT more fun as a fan.  We could also see ourselves in playoff contention much sooner than later.