Jump to content

  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

Offers for Burns

Mr. Scot

By Mr. Scot,
in Carolina Panthers

 Share

Recommended Posts

45catfan Grand Master

45catfan

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, joemac said:

What makes you think both firsts for Burns would be in this coming draft? Isn’t there only 1 or 2 teams with multiple firsts this year? Texans and Eagles?

Jut hopeful and it could happen (Philly) but yeah, likely split between the 2023 and 2024 draft.  If it did happen, though?!?!  I take a 3 day vacation for the draft and throw a party!

Edited by 45catfan
  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Martin Grand Master

Martin

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, joemac said:

What makes you think both firsts for Burns would be in this coming draft? Isn’t there only 1 or 2 teams with multiple firsts this year? Texans and Eagles?

I also think it is one this year and one next year from a very good team, so it is two late first rounders spread over two years. I wouldn’t take that either if I was Fitt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
1of10Charnatives Mentor

1of10Charnatives

Posted
Posted
Just now, Catsfan69 said:

The pass rusher you keep averages a sack a game. Historically that's about where the greats are.

Smith, Jones, Peppers, Greene, that's elite.

Hell just in our franchise Burns is 8th

1.Peppers 

2.Greene

3.Lathan

4.Hardy

5.Reddick

6.Johnson 

8.Burns/Rucker

So your premise is that only HOF worthy pass rushers are worth keeping? Your post doesn't explicitly state this but it seems implied. Do SB champion teams always have HOF worthy pass rushers, or do they often have multiple outstanding but not HOF worthy pass rushers? 

Two starting pass rushers who each produce 10 sacks have an advantage over the HOFer who hits for 20. First, it's far easier to get your hands on that than the HOFer, second, injury risk means you're not all or nothing. If your HOFer gets bit by the injury bug in a violent game, your pass rush doesn't simply evaporate.

Pointing out that Burns, just entering his prime, is only 8th on our franchise sack leader list, directly comparing him to retired players who played full careers is just not apples to apples.  This is Peppers and Greene. The next 3 players on your list had high sack per game numbers but played only a few seasons during their prime for us. The last two are interesting. I'd bet you dollars to donuts that if you checked Johnson and Ruckers sacks per game numbers at the same point in their careers Burns is at now, he would outperform them. 

Burns clearly has holes in his game, especially playing the run, and a propensity to fail to bring down QB's in his grasp, but his ceiling is obviously higher than grinders like Johnson and Rucker when it comes to pass rushing. I think you deal Burns if he doesn't want to stay, but if he does, you keep him because of the difficulty in replacing him.  Only about 15 to 20 players per season hit the level of production he's currently hitting, and his numbers can clearly go up.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CPcavedweller Veteran

CPcavedweller

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, Riverboat Ron said:

Imagine getting both the Eagles picks in 2023. One of them is that Saints pick and if they were to suck as bad as they look we might end up with a 1 and 2 of CJ Stroud and Will Anderson.

CJ Stroud, the Ohio State QB? They tend to flame out in the NFL. Give me Grayson McCall. Take Will Anderson and the top OT in the 1st.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
joemac Grand Master

joemac

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Jut hopeful and it could happen (Philly) but yeah, likely split between the 2023 and 2024 draft.  If it did happen, though?!?!  I take a 3 day vacation for the draft and throw a party!

Oh hell yeah. If that did happen it would be cause for celebration. However that’s probably not in the cards unfortunately. It would have to be Philly for 2 this year, as Houston is in the same boat as us, and it would make zero sense for them to make a move like that. But still, with any other team 2 firsts in back to back years would go a long way.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, La Pantera said:

Burns is a very good IMO. But he's yet to reach double digit sacks in a single season. I don't think he's worth top DE money. And that's exactly what he'll demand. 

That’s a reasonable, rational thought. I can agree with that. People calling him a JAG really don’t understand what they are talking about.

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JVic Community Regular

JVic

Posted
Posted
Just now, top dawg said:

Reddick didn't want to be here. Between Burns and Reddick, Burns was always the keeper.

Issue will be whether Burns wants to be here when it comes time to make that decision.  As things stand now, I have to imagine he would want to go somewhere else with better culture and opportunities to win.  We are going to have to over pay him to keep him.  Trade him, take the picks and bank on one of those two being another defensive star.  Brian Burns isn't sexy to a new coach, even if he's an absolute stud, but two 1st round picks would be.  Have to start thinking long term, towards the future of franchise.   

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catsfan69 Grand Master

Catsfan69

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

So your premise is that only HOF worthy pass rushers are worth keeping? Your post doesn't explicitly state this but it seems implied. Do SB champion teams always have HOF worthy pass rushers, or do they often have multiple outstanding but not HOF worthy pass rushers? 

Two starting pass rushers who each produce 10 sacks have an advantage over the HOFer who hits for 20. First, it's far easier to get your hands on that than the HOFer, second, injury risk means you're not all or nothing. If your HOFer gets bit by the injury bug in a violent game, your pass rush doesn't simply evaporate.

Pointing out that Burns, just entering his prime, is only 8th on our franchise sack leader list, directly comparing him to retired players who played full careers is just not apples to apples.  This is Peppers and Greene. The next 3 players on your list had high sack per game numbers but played only a few seasons during their prime for us. The last two are interesting. I'd bet you dollars to donuts that if you checked Johnson and Ruckers sacks per game numbers at the same point in their careers Burns is at now, he would outperform them. 

Burns clearly has holes in his game, especially playing the run, and a propensity to fail to bring down QB's in his grasp, but his ceiling is obviously higher than grinders like Johnson and Rucker when it comes to pass rushing. I think you deal Burns if he doesn't want to stay, but if he does, you keep him because of the difficulty in replacing him.  Only about 15 to 20 players per season hit the level of production he's currently hitting, and his numbers can clearly go up.

I didn't say sack leader list.

That's just a list of our best pass rushers skill wise.

He will never crack the top 5.

He's no Lathon Greene Peppers. He's just not that good.

There's probably 15 guys in the NFL I'd rather have than Burns.

He's literally like the 17th best at his position in the NFL.

He's not that good and I don't know why you guys are so enamored with him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tbe Grand Master

Tbe

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JVic said:

Issue will be whether Burns wants to be here when it comes time to make that decision.  As things stand now, I have to imagine he would want to go somewhere else with better culture and opportunities to win.  We are going to have to over pay him to keep him.  Trade him, take the picks and bank on one of those two being another defensive star.  Brian Burns isn't sexy to a new coach, even if he's an absolute stud, but two 1st round picks would be.  Have to start thinking long term, towards the future of franchise.   


Yeah, this is the main motivation to trade him if true.

Better to get multiple picks now than watch him walk or have to overpay him later.

  • Beer 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JVic said:

Issue will be whether Burns wants to be here when it comes time to make that decision.  As things stand now, I have to imagine he would want to go somewhere else with better culture and opportunities to win.  We are going to have to over pay him to keep him.  Trade him, take the picks and bank on one of those two being another defensive star.  Brian Burns isn't sexy to a new coach, even if he's an absolute stud, but two 1st round picks would be.  Have to start thinking long term, towards the future of franchise.   

True, he may just split. But, I would take the two first round picks...just not right away; I'd hold out until closer to the deadline to see if they won't sweeten the offer, or for a better one.

  • Pie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • MillionDollarCam
      Off Season Thread

      By MillionDollarCam · Posted

      I originally hated the Miller deal but with the cap projected to rise nearly $10M next season the Canes struck some pretty good deals between Miller and Ehlers. Most of the team is locked in for the next few years. Nikishin will need an extension probably in the $6M AAV range. And Blake will need one if we don’t move him. Personally I’d move Blake, picks, and any prospect not named Nikishin/Nadeau/Artamonov for McTavish as I don’t see any any of the big time players moving teams next year. Realistically the Hurricanes should just target Gustavsson next year to fix the goal tending issue. But I’m all for moving Blake, picks, and prospects for McTavish this year. Ehlers - Aho - Jarvis Svechnikov - McTavish - Stankoven Martinook - Staal - Carrier Hall - Kotkaniemi - Robinson Jost - Jankowski Slavin - Miller Nikishin - Chatfield Gostisbehere - Walker Reilly Andersen Kochetkov I’d do Blake, Felix-Unger-Sorum, and 27 2nd for McTavish.
    • WhoKnows
      Best draft picks ever at each slot (4 Panthers)

      By WhoKnows · Posted

      Very true on the length but stuff like this is never where we shine. We aren’t a good team at drafting.
    • Gapanthersfan
      Panthers Blueprint out now

      By Gapanthersfan · Posted

      Homerism aside, the more I see from Dan, the more impressed I am.  His player evaluation instincts. Last year his 2 premier FA signings, Hunt and Lewis COMPLETELY changed the line and I have a feeling his success in choosing blue chip guys will continue.  Look at the panthers’s rep for FA signings in the past. By and large, it’s been guys 1 year past their prime who had an injury and suckered our GM in to a crippling contract. We never get nice things. When was the last time this team signed 2 young blue chip studs  in the same offseason to contracts worthy of their impact? Ever?  Im telling y’all, players respect and trust Morgan. 
×
×
  • Create New...