Rd 2 and Rd 3 eval from Char observer

[raleigh-panther]

Mike Kaye shared his thoughts on Mingo and Johnson 

had a bit of an issue with plain text from Char observer but I do share his views here 

get your edge at 2 then worry about Mingo  who knows  maybe they have a FA plan 

Second round (39th overall): Jonathan Mingo, WR, Ole Miss

Mingo comes from the size-speed mismatch wideout factory at Ole Miss. Like DK Metcalf and AJ Brown before him, Mingo is a big, bulky wideout with rare speed at the position. Frankly, he’s an athletic freak who should be a mismatch in coverage for most defenders.

However, Mingo felt like a bit of a reach at No. 39, especially with the other talent on the board at the time. His selection also led to a questionable trade-up situation in the third round (more on that later), which should factor into the immediate evaluation of his second-round pick.

Mingo played in just 21 games during his first three seasons at Ole Miss. His breakout campaign this past season led to 51 catches for 861 yards and five touchdowns, so it’s not like his college production was overly impressive, which makes his second-round selection feel a bit of an overreach.

Still, Mingo was clearly a guy that the Panthers valued. Reich is a creative play designer, and Mingo’s skill set allows him to be used all around the field. Given his 6-foot-2, 220-pound frame, he has the makings of a long-term “X” receiver — like Metcalf and Brown — and that was a skill set that Carolina was lacking on the depth chart.

Mingo is very much a projection, which is why his pick is so polarizing. Typically, in the top 40, teams prefer to grab talent with plenty of tape and production at the college level. Mingo doesn’t really check that box — at all. But his traits are extremely rare, especially in this class, and his upside is tremendous.

Mingo was a highlight-reel machine last season, which makes him a flashy playmaker pick. He also should be a valued big-bodied target for Young, who will need jump-ball pass-catchers for his off-scheduled play tendencies.

But it felt like the Panthers could have traded back to acquire a few Day 3 picks before picking Mingo. But clearly, like with Young, the Panthers had conviction on the player and made their gamble, which they paid for in the next round.

GRADE: B-

Third round (80th overall): DJ Johnson, EDGE, Oregon

The Panthers traded the No. 93 and No. 132 picks — both acquired in the Christian McCaffrey deal with the San Francisco 49ers— to the Pittsburgh Steelers to acquire the 80th overall pick and select Johnson, a project pass-rusher with freakish athleticism but limited film and production.

With several notable prospects at other positions of need still on the board, general manager Scott Fitterer moved up 13 spots to land an EDGE rusher coming off a six-sack senior season. Johnson, a former tight end, moved all around the roster with the Ducks during his four years at Oregon, and he’s still an “upside” project at 24 years old.

The issue with this pick is two-fold. Johnson is already in his mid-20s and is still learning a position. And to make matters worse, the Panthers put added pressure on him by trading up to land him. Trading third- and fourth-round selections for Johnson, who was considered a fourth-round prospect (or worse) by draft analysts, is just awful optics — right or wrong. 

Fitterer also admitted that the reason they traded up was because of a Day 2 run on pass rushers, which made the need to select a draft-worthy EDGE rusher in the third round pressing. Had the Panthers taken an EDGE at No. 39 — like say, LSU’s BJ Ojulari who was selected immediately afterward at No. 40 — they wouldn’t have had to force this move or pick.

 

As Reich explained after the pick, Johnson will initially be an edge-setter with a power approach. He is more of a power player than a speed rusher or technician. His 7.33-second 3-cone implies that he has limited bend as a pass rusher, so the Panthers will use him as a run-stopping complement to the likes of Brian Burns and Marquis Haynes, who are speed rushers.

Sure, he ran a 4.49-second 40-yard dash at 6-foot-4 and 260 pounds, but that athleticism won’t matter unless he figures out how to play outside linebacker at the NFL level. To the Panthers’ credit, though, it does sound like they have a plan and role for him

For what it’s worth, though, The Observer spoke to an AFC defensive assistant on Saturday who said Johnson’s skill set is a perfect match for Ejiro Evero’s system. The coach, who was granted anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to speak on another team’s players, said Johnson ideally fit Evero’s scheme because of his size, speed and heavy hands. The coach believes those heavy hands will make him a strong edge-setter for the squad.

. And to make matters worse, the Panthers put added pressure on him by trading up to land him. Trading third- and fourth-round selections for Johnson, who was considered a fourth-round prospect (or worse) by draft analysts, is just awful optics — right or wrong. 

 

For what it’s worth, though, The Observer spoke to an AFC defensive assistant on Saturday who said Johnson’s skill set is a perfect match for Ejiro Evero’s system. The coach, who was granted anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to speak on another team’s players, said Johnson ideally fit Evero’s scheme because of his size, speed and heavy hands. The coach believes those heavy hands will make him a strong edge-setter for the squad.

Grade D

[Ricky Spanish]

Fixed the formatting for you.

[LinvilleGorge]

Yeah, pretty much agree with those takes. We'll see how it works out.

[MHS831]

I don't know about Mingo--the draft just does not have WRs like him, and with the success of the two examples provided, he would not have lasted long--many teams want the next Metcalf or Brown, and many teams were thirsty for WRs in a weak draft and free agency market.  He was a piece that we did not already have, and who knows who would have grabbed Mingo if he dropped.  The draft is full of surprises--

Setting the edge is important-- YGM, Johnson, and undrafted signee Leota to go with 3 speed rushers (Burns, Haynes, Barno). 

Edited April 30, 2023 by MHS831

[LinvilleGorge]

Mingo is intriguing for sure. It also pretty much confirms that we definitely didn't want to trade DJ. Everything I read about Mingo screams "slightly bigger DJ Moore" to me.

[Coheed]

1. I'm hugely biased obviously

2. I know jack poo about football

 

While I think going for Ojulari in the 2nd and a guy like Tyler Scott later on would have been more balanced of a draft, but the more I think on the Mingo pick the more I love it.

 

Mingo has all the tools to become an X. Some people say his value is inflated by a smaller WR class, and while that may be true, I also think he has a ton of untapped potential due to the circumstances of his college career; He had a possible breakout junior season cut short by injury, and by the time he was healthy. QB play at Ole Miss dropped off drastically.

 

He's big dude and he plays like it (looking at you Funchess). He shows attention to detail to route running, but still has a lot of room for improvement. He might not have the 3rd gear that burner type WRs have, but he's fast and moves very well for his size. Not to mention he's a good blocker and is a DAWG that's put some real big boy catches on tape- like one handed catch in traffic type of poo. It's been a while since we've had that kind of mentality and physicality at the position. He's great at the catch point, is a natural hands catcher with massive hands, and hard as poo to bring down with great YAC ability, which brings me to my next point.  

 

I think is the perfect kind of guy to pair up with Bryce. While Bryce's deep ball isn't bad, it's not known to be a strength of his. Bryce, as we all know, has often been referred to having a "Point Guard" style of play - quick reads and decision making, with the ability to distribute balls to playmakers quickly all over the field, but the dude isn't going to arm-rifle something into a tight window  30 yards down field.

 

For that "pointguard" style,  having a guy like Mingo that's both a huge YAC threat but also a big bodied guy that attacks contested balls with his hands is invaluable. He's lethal when in stride and I think he's gonna have a lot more opportunities to catch a ball in stride with a guy like Bryce.  I think our FO thinks a QB like Bryce will bring out the best in Mingo while he continues polishing his route running - Bryce is the kind of dude that's always gonna give the WR a chance on the ball and I think that'll really help a guy like Mingo while he continues to develop. I do think he has the highest ceiling in this class of any WR except maybe Zay Flowers.

 

Ojulari in the 2nd and a WR later on would have been, value wise, "better" - but I do like that we're getting aggressive on the offensive side of the ball for once.

 

 

Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Coheed

[L-TownCat]

Is the effort to assemble as much coaching talent as possible opening up the FO to take on riskier projects?  With the expectation that we can coach then up?

[Swaggasaurus]

The BJ Ojulari argument is one of the worst that I can remember. His stats matched Johnson’s last year despite it being the first year Johnson has played the position. Yep the huddles draft crush got matched by a first year 25 year old with zero pass rushing technique. Woof. What an indictment on Ojulari

[CRA]

Feels like Fitt and his staff operate under a vision to emphasis physical tools or select traits over actual football play.   Overall at least.  Not saying they do it every pick.   Might say it applies after the first round.  Did do it with the first.  But generally saw this the last 2 drafts. 

which can cut both ways like everything.  You end up intentionally passing on guys that have proven to be better football players to date in favor of select attributes and skills.   The mindset being you just coach up the superior raw talent.   But it can cut the wrong direction because sometimes the dudes that are already better players ….are often actually the most coachable to keep improving.  That’s why they were better players to begin with. 

but obviously favors you if you can turn the talent and skils into a superior football player.  

[thennek]

If Bryce Young becomes who the Panthers expect him to this was a significantly successful draft. If any of the others turn into all pro players that is a bonus. I think picking Mingo tells us that they are not sold on the current WR list and need more playmakers. This draft was about getting a QB and a 2nd round WR fits into that plan. 

[CRA]

Fitt and Frank’s Panthers career is going to come down to one pick though.  Young. 

[Coheed]

4 minutes ago, Swaggasaurus said:

The BJ Ojulari argument is one of the worst that I can remember. His stats matched Johnson’s last year despite it being the first year Johnson has played the position. Yep the huddles draft crush got matched by a first year 25 year old with zero pass rushing technique. Woof. What an indictment on Ojulari

Ojulari plays in the SEC

Johnson plays in the PAC12

Ojulari is 21

Johnson is 24, will turn 25 in his first season (how old Burns is right now)

Ojulari was a leader on his side of the ball and awarded LSU's No. 18 which is only given to standout guys that exemplify what it means to be a LSU tiger

Johnson was caught on video sucker punching a fan

Ojulari posted a 7.44 3 cone with a hamstring injury

Johnson posted a healthy 7.33

 

 

They're not even close to the same level of prospect. 

[Swaggasaurus]

3 minutes ago, Coheed said:

Ojulari plays in the SEC

Johnson plays in the PAC12

Ojulari is 21

Johnson is 24, will turn 25 in his first season (how old Burns is right now)

Ojulari was a leader on his side of the ball and awarded LSU's No. 18 which is only given to standout guys that exemplify what it means to be a LSU tiger

Johnson was caught on video sucker punching a fan

Ojulari posted a 7.44 3 cone with a hamstring injury

Johnson posted a healthy 7.33

 

 

They're not even close to the same level of prospect. 

Third year at OLB vs first year. Stats don’t lie. 
 

I get the age knock and still don’t like the pick. But BJ Ojulari is a poor argument. I don’t give a fug about #18, it’s irrelevant.Brian Kelly is a murderer, don’t tell me anything about character and reference a school that hired a murderer. 

[Bostonheelfish]

1 hour ago, raleigh-panther said:

And to make matters worse, the Panthers put added pressure on him by trading up to land him.

Oh no, teh presha. What an amateurish observation. Poor DJ Johnson, gets more money and validation from a higher draft position, but the Panthers shouldn’t have drafted him there because when he’s battling the offense he’ll feel the pressure of his draft position