Some outside perspective on Bryce

[frankw]

It's good to hear some positive thoughts from this and Aaron Rodgers. But at the end of the day it's just talk and opinion no different than anyone else. Nobody knows. Not the people in this thread skeptical and certainly not the people making the usual accusations about others rooting against the Panthers. This Texans game needs to be the one that answers some looming questions. I really hope we get that. It's needed. This franchise needs an injection of some kind of life. We'll see.

[tukafan21]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

You don't think current Goff is a top 10 QB in the league right now?  He is in the top 5 in most statistics and has a NFL best record of 5-1.  Which 10 do you have above him?

He's the right fit for that offense and it's helping him put up stats, but are you really saying there aren't 10 QBs in this league that you'd take instead of him? 

Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Hurts, Herbert, Tua, Lawrence, Jackson are 8 QB's currently playing that I'd take over Goff as just players without a second thought (not considering specific fit of QB within an offense and weapons, which is why I think Goff is successful right now).

That doesn't include Rodgers, who if you count him, you're clearly taking over Goff.

Cousins, Geno, Stafford, Dak would all be ones that would be close and debatable.

Stroud is probably not one you'd take at this very moment (although maybe some would), but in a year or two, I think is going to be a much better QB than Goff is.

Watson has significantly higher upside if he can find his old game again.

The point is that right now Goff is at the peak of his QB abilities and a huge reason they have maybe the best OC in the game right now, one of the best WRs, OLs (as a whole), and a great run game.

Throw Bryce into that offense and he's going to be successful.

When you trade away what we did, you shouldn't be trading for a Goff type of player, it should be for one of those other guys who can carry a weaker team around them to success, Goff isn't doing that and neither will Bryce.

The Rams made a similar trade to move up to get Goff, and even after he was their starting QB on a team that went to a SB, they decided to give up 2 first round picks to be able to trade him for Stafford.  

Edited October 19, 2023 by tukafan21

[Wolfcop]

4 hours ago, Dunn said:

Of all the things that have gone wrong this season, Young isn't really one of them for me.  Everything around him is a dumpster fire though...

Yep - we finally got the QB. Now, need to build around him. 

[ForJimmy]

13 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

He's the right fit for that offense and it's helping him put up stats, but are you really saying there aren't 10 QBs in this league that you'd take instead of him? 

Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Hurts, Herbert, Tua, Lawrence, Jackson are 8 QB's currently playing that I'd take over Goff as just players without a second thought (not considering specific fit of QB within an offense and weapons, which is why I think Goff is successful right now).

That doesn't include Rodgers, who if you count him, you're clearly taking over Goff.

Cousins, Geno, Stafford, Dak would all be ones that would be close and debatable.

Stroud is probably not one you'd take at this very moment (although maybe some would), but in a year or two, I think is going to be a much better QB than Goff is.

Watson has significantly higher upside if he can find his old game again.

The point is that right now Goff is at the peak of his QB abilities and a huge reason they have maybe the best OC in the game right now, one of the best WRs, OLs (as a whole), and a great run game.

Throw Bryce into that offense and he's going to be successful.

When you trade away what we did, you shouldn't be trading for a Goff type of player, it should be for one of those other guys who can carry a weaker team around them to success, Goff isn't doing that and neither will Bryce.

The Rams made a similar trade to move up to get Goff, and even after he was their starting QB on a team that went to a SB, they decided to give up 2 first round picks to be able to trade him for Stafford.  

I mean if the peak of his ability is top 5 in every stat plus the best record in the league for a franchise that hasn’t been good in a long time I’ll gladly take it?

Also you could make the sane argument for Tua who you listed as better. Hell Brees, Manning, Warner, and Brady all worked in QB friendly offenses. If they are putting up numbers that are top of the league and winning then it’s hard to hold it against them.

Someone mentioned consistency and that’s a solid argument against Goff. If he is still top of the league in stats and wins by year end then people need to give him some credit.

Edited October 19, 2023 by ForJimmy

[ThrillzforthePils]

Can we stop saying we gave up 2 firsts for Bryce?  It’s so misleading.  We swapped 1sts and gave up next years first.  It was a large sum and I’m not denying that.

There has simply not been enough nfl game tape to nail down what Bryce will become.

 How many on here had given up on Derrick Brown?

[RJK]

Also Rodgers is a dope so his word means fugall 

[stratocatter]

2 minutes ago, ThrillzforthePils said:

Can we stop saying we gave up 2 firsts for Bryce?  It’s so misleading.  We swapped 1sts and gave up next years first.  It was a large sum and I’m not denying that.

There has simply not been enough nfl game tape to nail down what Bryce will become.

 How many on here had given up on Derrick Brown?

You count your way, what happened to the 9th pick? We gave it up, did we not? 

Did we not also give next year’s #1 to Chicago? Yes, we surely did do that. Add it freaking up. If you get one first out of that stay the hell away from my money. 

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, ThrillzforthePils said:

Can we stop saying we gave up 2 firsts for Bryce?  It’s so misleading.  We swapped 1sts and gave up next years first.  It was a large sum and I’m not denying that.

There has simply not been enough nfl game tape to nail down what Bryce will become.

 How many on here had given up on Derrick Brown?

If we didn't make the trade, we would have a 1st round pick on our team from this year's draft and our first next year.

The literal definition of giving up 2 firsts for him

If it makes you feel better to say we gave up a first and two 2nd's to move up in the draft to take him, sure, go ahead and say it that way, but it's just semantics at that point, we still gave up 2 firsts to get the pick.

Edited October 19, 2023 by tukafan21

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, ThrillzforthePils said:

Can we stop saying we gave up 2 firsts for Bryce?  It’s so misleading.  We swapped 1sts and gave up next years first.  It was a large sum and I’m not denying that.

There has simply not been enough nfl game tape to nail down what Bryce will become.

 How many on here had given up on Derrick Brown?

You are still giving up that current first to draft the player. For example Cam cost us the top pick in the draft. He wasn’t a free acquisition. That pick could have been used on a different player so it still was part of the acquisition cost.

I get what you are saying though. The trade wasn’t 2 firsts. It was a swap plus next year’s first.

[amcoolio]

17 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

He's the right fit for that offense and it's helping him put up stats, but are you really saying there aren't 10 QBs in this league that you'd take instead of him? 

Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Hurts, Herbert, Tua, Lawrence, Jackson are 8 QB's currently playing that I'd take over Goff as just players without a second thought (not considering specific fit of QB within an offense and weapons, which is why I think Goff is successful right now).

That doesn't include Rodgers, who if you count him, you're clearly taking over Goff.

Cousins, Geno, Stafford, Dak would all be ones that would be close and debatable.

Stroud is probably not one you'd take at this very moment (although maybe some would), but in a year or two, I think is going to be a much better QB than Goff is.

Watson has significantly higher upside if he can find his old game again.

The point is that right now Goff is at the peak of his QB abilities and a huge reason they have maybe the best OC in the game right now, one of the best WRs, OLs (as a whole), and a great run game.

Throw Bryce into that offense and he's going to be successful.

When you trade away what we did, you shouldn't be trading for a Goff type of player, it should be for one of those other guys who can carry a weaker team around them to success, Goff isn't doing that and neither will Bryce.

The Rams made a similar trade to move up to get Goff, and even after he was their starting QB on a team that went to a SB, they decided to give up 2 first round picks to be able to trade him for Stafford.  

Can you list a QB that would take the situation in Carolina and make them a playoff team?

I know for sure Burrow, Hurts, Herbert, Tua, Lawrence, Goff, Cousins, Dak, and Jackson would be 1-5 or worse.

I'd have Mahomes and Allen at 3-3.

Point is, they all have way better defenses and weapons than Carolina. There's not a single QB in today's game that can thrive without weapons or a defense... Mahomes and Allen are the closest, but they definitely wouldn't be contenders with the shitty defense we have.

Hurts and Purdy have superstar casts. That wins championships.

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

Can you list a QB that would take the situation in Carolina and make them a playoff team?

I know for sure Burrow, Hurts, Herbert, Tua, Lawrence, Goff, Cousins, Dak, and Jackson would be 1-5 or worse.

I'd have Mahomes and Allen at 3-3.

Point is, they all have way better defenses and weapons than Carolina. There's not a single QB in today's game that can thrive without weapons or a defense... Mahomes and Allen are the closest, but they definitely wouldn't be contenders with the shitty defense we have.

Hurts and Purdy have superstar casts. That wins championships.

Every QB listed there gets us a win in the Falcons, Saints, and Vikings games at minimum and would have had us in the Seattle game, hell, Dalton had us in that one for much of the game.

And the point isn't about what other QB's would do with our roster.

It's that we gave up far too much for a QB of Bryce's max potential.

Edited October 19, 2023 by tukafan21

[CPF4LIFE]

49 minutes ago, thebdawg said:

Re Goff: was WAY worse than Bryce his rookie year. Threw for 1k/5tds/7ints in 7 starts. Went 0-7.

Made the pro bowl the next year, took his team to a Super Bowl the next throwing for 4700 32tds 12 ints. Can’t just be putting players in a box 6 or 7 games into their career.

Way worse is a stretch, we are talking 7 starts compared to potentially 16. That is a significant difference, Bryce will have plenty of more games and chances to improve his stat line or at least make it look significantly better.

[CRA]

20 minutes ago, amcoolio said:

I know for sure Burrow, Hurts, Herbert, Tua, Lawrence, Goff, Cousins, Dak, and Jackson would be 1-5 or worse.

I'd have Mahomes and Allen at 3-3.

I’m not buying Lamar and Hurts being 1-5 or worse here.  They are both built to adapt to our issues significantly better than Bryce Young by a large margin.  And we could have won a couple games with Bryce if you changed a singular play most likely Not only are they vets but they can create their own run game and extend many plays that Bryce has been sacked on.  And that’s with an our poo playcalling.  

Heck, we should have been able to win several with Bryce and good coaching.   And the Herberts, Lawerences and Burrow types would have been given more Andy Dalton liberty and they are drastically better than Dalton. 

 

[Silent Majority]

Blah, blah, blah ....until it translates its just babble.