holy crap Tmac

[Gapanthersfan]

12 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Adam Thielen's one handed catch last year in OT against the Bucs was the best catch I have seen by a Panther in several years.  

 

 

To bad we wasted it. 

Too old. washed up. Slow and play has declined. Park him on the bench. Right? 

Best hands ever (yes, even than McCaffery) on this team. 

[tukafan21]

12 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Adam Thielen's one handed catch last year in OT against the Bucs was the best catch I have seen by a Panther in several years.  

 

 

To bad we wasted it. 

The crazy part is that as good as that catch was, if it was T-Mac, it wouldn't even be in his Top 5 catches over his last 2 seasons, more than likely would crack the Top 10, but even that might not be a guarantee.

And I mean that as no slight to Thielen, I love having him as a Panther.  But just saying, get used to a number of eye popping grabs by T-Mac every year, it's just what he does, those hands are vice grips covered with glue.

Edited 20 hours ago by tukafan21

[ColumbusCounty]

14 hours ago, TD alt said:

Coker isn't an experienced veteran, and neither did he go to Minnesota with Bryce Young and company. Now I am not saying he didnt have his reasons for not attending, but he's still a young kid. 

He doesn't have to be a vet to hold information. His route running is still better than average. 

[Davidson Deac II]

2 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

The crazy part is that as good as that catch was, if it was T-Mac, it wouldn't even be in his Top 5 catches over his last 2 seasons, more than likely would crack the Top 10, but even that might not be a guarantee.

And I mean that as no slight to Thielen, I love having him as a Panther.  But just saying, get used to a number of eye popping grabs by T-Mac every year, it's just what he does, those hands are vice grips covered with glue.

I hope you are right.  

Fwiw, I sometimes think that when assessing WR's, fans and occasionally coaching staffs/scouts, get caught up to much in speed.  Speed is great and certainly helps.  But everyone involved in the passing game is fast.  With a guy like Thielen, and hopefully Tet, they only need a couple of feet to be considered open.  

 

[LinvilleGorge]

23 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I hope you are right.  

Fwiw, I sometimes think that when assessing WR's, fans and occasionally coaching staffs/scouts, get caught up to much in speed.  Speed is great and certainly helps.  But everyone involved in the passing game is fast.  With a guy like Thielen, and hopefully Tet, they only need a couple of feet to be considered open.  

 

Most elite WRs aren't necessarily burners. Not a lot of elite WRs in the modern era were 4.3 guys. If anything, sometimes it seems like the super fast guys use their speed as a crutch and it hampers their development in the intricacies of route running.

[TD alt]

1 hour ago, Davidson Deac II said:

I hope you are right.  

Fwiw, I sometimes think that when assessing WR's, fans and occasionally coaching staffs/scouts, get caught up to much in speed.  Speed is great and certainly helps.  But everyone involved in the passing game is fast.  With a guy like Thielen, and hopefully Tet, they only need a couple of feet to be considered open.  

 

 

You may be interested to know that the average depth of separation is dependent upon the type of route run. Though go-routes are the most type of route run, they also produce the least amount of separation (and, of course, completions).

 

"The average pass catcher runs a go route on nearly a quarter of all routes (22.3%), the highest percentage of any route type in our data. However, those routes are targeted roughly 1 out of 10 times (10.8 percent), the lowest target rate of any route.
The WR screen is the least-run route (3.4%), and it's the only route where the average target is behind the line of scrimmage. But it's also targeted at the highest rate (40.7%) and early in the play (1.6 seconds average time to throw).
The most targeted routes outside of the WR Screen? The out (27.8%) and slant (25.2%) routes are the next most popular across the league."

 

 

"The most valuable routes by expected points added per target were the post (+0.48) and corner (+0.43) routes. The go route (+0.19) ranked seventh on the list of 10 route types. The go route (+0.19) ranked seventh on the list of 10 route types. One possible reason for this: It's harder to separate on go routes, which put the player on a straight path, than on posts or corners, which ask the player to make a cut. Targeted pass catchers on posts and corners average 2.4 yards and 2.3 yards of separation from the nearest defender, respectively, while pass catchers targeted on go routes average just 1.8 yards of separation."

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/next-gen-stats-intro-to-new-route-recognition-model#:~:text=Targeted pass catchers on posts,) and slant (+0.26).

 

I would expect that Thielen would have an easier time catching the ball based that he runs the routes where it's easier to get open. Tet? Yet to be seen, but we may be better served getting him on some slants and crossers also. 

In general, receivers are going to average a lower completion percentage and yards of separation on certain types of routes than others, that's why we shouldn't necessarily be taking stats, even advanced ones, at face value, as there are dynamics that most aren't even thinking about. 

In terms of Tet, he's bigger and somewhat slower than a smaller dude, so you'd expect him not to have as much separation on go-routes, but his catch radius is massive and his hands are awesome. Hitting him in stride will probably be killer, but of course QBs are less accurate on go-routes according to the stats. Depending upon Tet's route versatility and how he is used, we could have a unicorn though. He's relatively fast, has great hands and gets YAC (and on an off note, if X can hold on to the ball, he's dangerous as well because he already has shown some separation ability).

 

 

[TD alt]

https://x.com/Schultz_Report/status/1950949117577822541?t=30fe2IrG3BpxlHFMyJIjYw&s=19

[CPcavedweller]

22 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The bad is that I haven't seen many clips of him getting open. The good is that he's finding ways to make plays anyway.

Meanwhile Matthew Golden is averaging about 25 yards of separation at Packers camp and making catches that are easy because HE CAN GET OPEN.

He will make plays like this from time to time but at what cost? What will it cost Bryce to get him the ball in constantly tight coverage? How many more sacks might Bryce take waiting for him to break open? 

We really should have looked at what Bryce had at Alabama and tried to work with that. The Dolphins did this with Waddle and Hill. Golden would have made so much more sense here. 

[ThPantherFan]

21 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Hope he can when the bullets are live.

I agree 100% with that assessment.  We will see. I hope he does.

[CPcavedweller]

5 minutes ago, TD alt said:

https://x.com/Schultz_Report/status/1950949117577822541?t=30fe2IrG3BpxlHFMyJIjYw&s=19

Armanti Edwards made a lot of plays in camp as well. And I'm an App State fan. 

Camp means nothing in terms of individual performance in season. Preseason games mean next to nothing in terms of individual performances; though wins and losses do seem to correlate to team success. 

I want to see him succeed and the team to succeed but we've run this experiment before. We also had DJ Chark who is incredibly similar to McMillan. 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Meanwhile Matthew Golden is averaging about 25 yards of separation at Packers camp and making catches that are easy because HE CAN GET OPEN.

He will make plays like this from time to time but at what cost? What will it cost Bryce to get him the ball in constantly tight coverage? How many more sacks might Bryce take waiting for him to break open? 

We really should have looked at what Bryce had at Alabama and tried to work with that. The Dolphins did this with Waddle and Hill. Golden would have made so much more sense here. 

Light contact training camp practices heavily favors the speedsters. Ultimately the truth will come out when the real games start in the regular season.

[frankw]

12 minutes ago, CPcavedweller said:

Armanti Edwards made a lot of plays in camp as well. And I'm an App State fan. 

Camp means nothing in terms of individual performance in season. Preseason games mean next to nothing in terms of individual performances; though wins and losses do seem to correlate to team success. 

I want to see him succeed and the team to succeed but we've run this experiment before. We also had DJ Chark who is incredibly similar to McMillan. 

Hey man if you're skeptical I can respect that. But Armanti Edwards? Cmon... That's a low blow. Let's at least be rational here and see how he looks in preseason.

[kungfoodude]

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Light contact training camp practices heavily favors the speedsters. Ultimately the truth will come out when the real games start in the regular season.

This dude is just simping for "his guy." Another player fan in Panthers clothing. Nothing different.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

This dude is just simping for "his guy." Another player fan in Panthers clothing. Nothing different.

Weird because it's basically a guy who just put up okay college numbers and is largely being drafted on his potential. We all know how that usually turns out...