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Chicken or the Egg

NAS

By NAS,
in Carolina Panthers

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NAS Grand Master

NAS

Posted
Posted

Are the lack of deep passes due to Bryce or is this always the gameplan? 
 

 Even last year in second half we took more shots downfield and we expected that to continue with Bryce. 

Now, every game you hear Canales emphasize getting the ball out quickly and neutralizing the pass rush, protecting the beat up OL.

In this context, would it really matter to him who was standing back there as QB?   And if so, why?

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, NAS said:

Are the lack of deep passes due to Bryce or is this always the gameplan? 
 

 Even last year in second half we took more shots downfield and we expected that to continue with Bryce. 

Now, every game you hear Canales emphasize getting the ball out quickly and neutralizing the pass rush, protecting the beat up OL.

In this context, would it really matter to him who was standing back there as QB?   And if so, why?

100% matters if that's the game plan. Every QB isn't a dink and dunker. For instance Love couldn't help himself Sunday. He'd get antsy and just launch it deep into double or triple coverage. Does seem like Canales has adjusted to what Bryce likes though. 

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Donald LaFell Veteran

Donald LaFell

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It’s too large of a sample size to blame coaching. Bryce has missed a lot of deep balls when he’s had the chance. 
 

Tetairoa seems to be a good match for him to put the ball in a contested spot near the sideline on a deeper shot but it seems like Bryce isn’t capable of dropping something in the bucket for a big play. To be fair we don’t have a deep threat like a Ginn in the past. 
 

 

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t96 Grand Master

t96

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Even if Canales wants to win games by focusing on possession and ball control with more of a power run game and short passes, having an actual deep passing threat will make doing all of that much easier. And Bryce is not a deep passing threat, so teams don't really have to defend it. 

The best coaches do adjust to their players though, we've seen multiple years now of Andy Reid's elite offensive mind and Mahomes' elite arm be somewhat deliberately neutralized by their lack of receivers and OL (that's changed this year, clearly, now that their WRs are healthy and OL improved). The past 2 years they became more of a manage the game type offense and let the defense win. And it worked to the tune of a SB win and another appearance. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

Posted
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25 minutes ago, NAS said:

Are the lack of deep passes due to Bryce or is this always the gameplan? 
 

 Even last year in second half we took more shots downfield and we expected that to continue with Bryce. 

Now, every game you hear Canales emphasize getting the ball out quickly and neutralizing the pass rush, protecting the beat up OL.

In this context, would it really matter to him who was standing back there as QB?   And if so, why?

I did a look at this earlier and the amount of deep passes attempted from 2024-2025 per NFL NGS between Young and Dalton wasn't much. Bryce actually threw more downfield.

I do think that the greater "blame" for the lack of deep targets is on Canales rather than Bryce. I think the success of those passes is more on Bryce.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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6 minutes ago, Donald LaFell said:

It’s too large of a sample size to blame coaching. Bryce has missed a lot of deep balls when he’s had the chance. 
 

Tetairoa seems to be a good match for him to put the ball in a contested spot near the sideline on a deeper shot but it seems like Bryce isn’t capable of dropping something in the bucket for a big play. To be fair we don’t have a deep threat like a Ginn in the past. 
 

 

I would argue the reverse. Between Dalton and Bryce, there haven't been many deep shots at all. 

That seems to indicate it does have a heavy scheme component.

Also, IDGAF about the lack of deep passing. As I stated earlier this season here, throw backwards, throw short, throw intermediate, throw long......just be successful. IDGAF what the success looks like. I have preferences but if we are winning, I don't care.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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Just now, kungfoodude said:

I would argue the reverse. Between Dalton and Bryce, there haven't been many deep shots at all. 

That seems to indicate it does have a heavy scheme component.

Also, IDGAF about the lack of deep passing. As I stated earlier this season here, throw backwards, throw short, throw intermediate, throw long......just be successful. IDGAF what the success looks like. I have preferences but if we are winning, I don't care.

There is a scheme component, but Canales was also HC last year. I think that Canales is playing to his QB, too. This year Bryce is having little success after his first read, so that may be part of the decision making in what routes are being run. I'm not sure. Bryce himself hasn't looked as good 15-20 yards as he did end of last year either.

Fwiw, Dalton is not strong armed at all anymore either.

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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13 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

There is a scheme component, but Canales was also HC last year. I think that Canales is playing to his QB, too. This year Bryce is having little success after his first read, so that may be part of the decision making in what routes are being run. I'm not sure. Bryce himself hasn't looked as good 15-20 yards as he did end of last year either.

Fwiw, Dalton is not strong armed at all anymore either.

I am going stand by my assessment. We will see if it changes.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

Posted
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47 minutes ago, NAS said:

Are the lack of deep passes due to Bryce or is this always the gameplan? 
 

 Even last year in second half we took more shots downfield and we expected that to continue with Bryce. 

Now, every game you hear Canales emphasize getting the ball out quickly and neutralizing the pass rush, protecting the beat up OL.

In this context, would it really matter to him who was standing back there as QB?   And if so, why?

"They're playing the way they have to play with Bryce Young at QB."

Canales is adapting to the cards he's holding. This isn't the way he wants to play, it's the way he has to play right now.

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NAS Grand Master

NAS

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14 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

There is a scheme component, but Canales was also HC last year. I think that Canales is playing to his QB, too. This year Bryce is having little success after his first read, so that may be part of the decision making in what routes are being run. I'm not sure. Bryce himself hasn't looked as good 15-20 yards as he did end of last year either.

Fwiw, Dalton is not strong armed at all anymore either.

But is he asked to abandon reads after 2.7 seconds and not wait for routes to develop due to protection and earlier concerns with fumbles? 

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NAS Grand Master

NAS

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Posted
Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

"They're playing the way they have to play with Bryce Young at QB."

Canales is adapting to the cards he's holding. This isn't the way he wants to play, it's the way he has to play right now.

If I remember it was Greg Cossell who said that before the Bills game insinuating they would play better with Dalton lol

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  • Posts

    • *FreeFua*
      Why does Bryce get the blame?

      By *FreeFua* · Posted

      And once again I showed you it’s been pretty even. We spent 2nd and 3rd rounders this past draft on edge rushers. No one’s going to sit here and do the math on a draft value chart etc. the only reason I even entertained this was because you said we’ve spent nothing on defense when that simply isn’t true. It also didn’t help we traded our ONLY WR worth a damn to trade up for Bryce soo… And this is kind of the issue with the anti Bryce crowd. This crowd tends to blame him for the trade up. I was team Stroud. Had the panthers not taken Young the only other QB they were going to take was Richardson. So your issue should be with Tepper, Morgan, Fitterer not Bryce.  Bryce is who he is and it was pretty obvious who he was during the draft process. Bryce is slowly developing into that guy most thought he’d be. Give him a WR like Jamo and this offense as a whole would improve greatly.  Anyone thinking he was the next Pat Mahomes or Josh Allen is clearly slow. Bryce was always going to need pieces around him much like EVERY other QB Burrow has Chase and Higgins and they’ve done nothing. After losing in AFC Championship in 2022, Burrow is 17-15. QB’s need a team around them It’s why a Jalen Hurts led Eagles team dismantled a Pat Mahomes led KC team in the SB Imo the QB’s doing the most with the least up until this year have been Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson  This year it’s Drake Maye and Josh Allen  Outside of the 3-5 elite type QB’s I’m not really sure what people expect here. Is Bryce ever going to be in that elite category? Nope. Should we punt on Bryce and keep swinging? I don’t think so. Should we keep swinging while hanging onto Bryce? Yeah but I don’t know what that looks like This team as a whole isn’t very good. Offense and defense and that’s the simple truth  
    • SmokinwithWilly
      Why does Bryce get the blame?

      By SmokinwithWilly · Posted

      I didn't move the goal posts. But anyone who follows football who wants to engage in a rational discussion can't argue that 10 7th round picks are equal to 10 1st rounders in value. The argument has always been we haven't spent as much on defense has we have on offense. Draft picks have value just like salary. We have not spent the same amount of draft pick salary cap on defense that we have on offense since drafting Bryce. It's not even close. Just the 2 1sts we used on Bryce, 2 overall 1sts have a value of 6000. That doesn’t even factor in DJ Moore or the 2 2nds. Bryce cost more than everything we've spent on defense in 6 damn years. 
    • raleigh-panther
      Canales and Darnold

      By raleigh-panther · Posted

      We need to hope this scenario plays our next week he fails with pressure…what that means with Evero, is beyond me
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