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We have traded for Andy Lee from the Browns


nctarheel0619

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We just spent a 4th round pick to get one of the best players in the league at a position of weakness for us.  JFC what more do you people want.  Who cares if it's the least important position, or the second least important position.  It was a position of weakness, and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.  Need an example?  Our first Super Bowl.  Not saying Kasay was our weakest link, and he's a Kicker, but it's still relevant.  A kick/punt mistake cost us a chance at winning the Super Bowl.

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10 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

We just spent a 4th round pick to get one of the best players in the league at a position of weakness for us.  JFC what more do you people want.  Who cares if it's the least important position, or the second least important position.  It was a position of weakness, and a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.  Need an example?  Our first Super Bowl.  Not saying Kasay was our weakest link, and he's a Kicker, but it's still relevant.  A kick/punt mistake cost us a chance at winning the Super Bowl.

Or Nortman punting four times for an average of like 35 yards against the seahawks in the 2013-14 playoff loss. Two of them barely crossed midfield.

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3 minutes ago, Floppin said:

Or Nortman punting four times for an average of like 35 yards against the seahawks in the 2013-14 playoff loss. Two of them barely crossed midfield.

Yeah, it was weird with Nortman.  He had a stretch where he actually looked good but then regressed again.  Lee is proven and an established legit punter.  

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Yeah I didn't realize that he'd been in the league for so long.  He isn't the best, but he's solid.  He's known for his directional punting, and is still one of the best directional punters in the league. That was likely the key tipping point for his signing.  We had to give up a 4th, not really a huge deal.  We'll likely use some of our trade capital in the future to get it back. 

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Special Teams has been the Panthers Achilles Heel for several years now

Nortman was not getting the job done

Answer was not on the roster

No guarantee we'd win in a battle to snag one of the cuts

Panthers are poised to make another SB run, wasn't worth being penny wise and pound foolish.

Our fourth may likely amount to only one or two picks prior to the fifth round, add in the fact that it isn't till 2018, and it amounts to the equivalent of a sixth round pick.  

Who really wants to take a chance of yet another special teams error costing us a SB win like in 2003?

Apparently not Ron or G-Man.

If they're cool with it, I'm on board.

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3 hours ago, uncfan888 said:

But, according to razeyfingers, I'm the only one in here that thought this guy sounded like CPK.. these past ten pages are all my alts calling him out.. smh at this dude singling me out for not liking this pessimistic bullshit 

I said you do it in about every other post. Youre still emotional and defensive. This has nothing to do with everyone else. Just you. You could try calming down and not letting him bother you so much

 

try decaf

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I'm glad they addressed the issue, but I'm not too thrilled about giving up a fourth. However, the punter situation needed to be solved, and given that it's only 2 weeks to the opener, I'm not surprised that the trade came with a extra cost. Hopefully that was the missing piece to make this team extremely hard to beat - field position is massive the way we play the game

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14 hours ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

Relax. Is it a bad move? For 28 teams in the league it is. But we are one of maybe four legit Super Bowl contenders. We are going for it. Do I love it? No. Do I get it? Of course.

If we did this because we think we can win the SB this year, that doesn't fit Gettleman's philosophy, of not believing in windows. 

 

14 hours ago, Kuhndog94 said:

He averaged over 46 yards a punt last year... His age isn't a problem...

You don't know that. It wasn't last year. Maybe it won't be this year. The average career of a player who makes a pro bowl is 11.7 years. This will be Lee's 13th. We are giving up a pick that could have been on the roster until 2021 or used to trade up. I'm not saying it was wrong but I am concerned about trading a pick for a player on the tail end of his career.

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6 hours ago, Semaj said:

It's just a 4th rounder all you negative Nancy's. Besides games and possibly super bowls can be won and lost with your kicking / punting games. Genius move by General Gettleman.

Sent from my XT1575 using CarolinaHuddle mobile app
 

Every move by Gettleman is a genius move according to all his jock sniffers. 

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    • The referee assigned to this game is Shawn Smith. This is a critical data point for betting purposes because his crew has one of the most distinct, long-term statistical biases in the NFL. "Road Team" Bias: Historically, Shawn Smith is known as the "Road Team Referee." In a league where home teams usually win ~55% of the time, home teams in Smith's games have historically won at a rate far below league average (often hovering around 40-42%). Against The Spread (ATS): The trend is even starker here. Home teams have covered the spread at a rate of roughly 37-40% in his career. The Mechanism: Analysis shows his crew tends to call a higher rate of False Start and Unnecessary Roughness penalties on the Home Team. This negates the traditional home-field advantage (crowd noise causing false starts for the visitors). Impact on This Game: This specific assignment heavily favors the Buccaneers (Road Team). If you believe the referee influences the game, Smith's presence suggests the Panthers will struggle to get "home cooking" calls and may face untimely procedural flags that stall drives. The Panthers have only had Shawn Smith officiate four home games since he became a head referee in 2018, and they are all losses. Date Opponent Result Score Nov 24, 2024 vs. Kansas City Chiefs Loss 27–30 Oct 9, 2022 vs. San Francisco 49ers Loss 15–37 Dec 12, 2021 vs. Atlanta Falcons Loss 21–29 Nov 25, 2018 vs. Seattle Seahawks Loss 27–30 Considering the how rare it is for Shawn Smith to officiate a Panthers game at all, this seems like an odd time to assign him to a Panthers game, unless the NFL wants to kill the Panthers season once and for all.  The Panthers' offensive line situation creates a "perfect storm" for referee Shawn Smith's specific tendency to call False Starts on the home team. The "Carousel" Factor (Communication Vulnerability) The most damning stat for the Panthers' offensive line in 2025 is their lack of continuity. The Stat: By Week 13, the Panthers had already fielded their 10th different offensive line combination. The Impact: False starts are often "communication penalties"—they happen when a guard doesn't hear the center's snap count or a tackle anticipates the wrong cadence. A unit that hasn't played together struggles with non-verbal communication. The Shawn Smith Multiplier: Shawn Smith’s crew calls False Starts at a high rate on home teams. He will likely look for flinches on the exterior of the line. A disjointed line that is constantly rotating players (due to the injuries of starters like Cade Mays and the illness issues with Robert Hunt earlier this season) is "fresh meat" for this specific referee bias. The Specific Culprits (2025 Penalties) Ikem Ekwonu (LT): Leads the team with 4 False Start penalties this season. He is the most frequent violator on the line. Taylor Moton (RT): Has been flagged for 3 False Starts. The Trap: Smith’s crew often focuses on the tackles (the players furthest from the ball) jumping early to get an edge on speed rushers. Since Ekwonu struggles with this discipline naturally, having a referee who hunts for it is a massive disadvantage. The "Managed Outcome" Synthesis The "Bucs Cover" Script: If the desired outcome is a Buccaneers win to solidify their playoff standing, the officials simply have to apply the letter of the law. Calling strict False Starts on a confused, banged-up Panthers O-line will consistently put them in "3rd and Long" situations, killing their drives and allowing the Bucs (-3.5) to cover easily. The "Close Game" Script: If the desired outcome is "Week 18 Drama" (keeping the division tied), look for the officials to ignore the Panthers' twitchy tackles. If Ekwonu jumps a split-second early and no flag is thrown, it effectively neutralizes the Bucs' pass rush, allowing the Panthers to keep the score close. Summary of the Edge Vulnerability: Extreme. The Panthers are playing backup interior linemen (like Jake Curhan or practice squad call-ups) next to jumpy tackles. Betting Implication: This strongly reinforces the Bucs -3 or -3.5 play. The combination of a "Road Team Referee" and a "Home Team O-Line in chaos" suggests the Panthers will beat themselves with procedural penalties. Based on the collision of the hard data (Referee bias + Offensive Line injuries) and the soft narratives ("Managed Outcomes"), here is the definitive recommendation. If you have to place a single Moneyline bet to win this game straight up: The Pick: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (-165) While the "Entertainment Script" hints at a Panthers upset to keep the division messy, the structural disadvantage the Panthers face in this specific matchup is too massive to ignore. Here is why the Buccaneers are the stong moneyline play: 1. The "Shawn Smith" Road-Field Advantage This is the decisive factor. In the NFL, Home Field Advantage usually accounts for about 1.5 to 2 points of value. The Reality: Referee Shawn Smith negates that advantage entirely. His crew calls penalties in a way that historically suppresses home crowd momentum (False Starts, holding). The Result: You are essentially getting the Buccaneers on a neutral field (or even a "pseudo-home" field) against a team with a worse roster. 2. The "Drive-Killer" Synergy To win as an underdog, the Panthers need to play a clean, mistake-free game to keep drives alive. The combination of Panthers' 10th O-Line combo + Jump-prone Tackles (Ekwonu) + A Referee who hunts False Starts is a recipe for disaster. The Scenario: Expect the Panthers to face multiple "1st and 15" or "3rd and 12" situations due to procedural flags. These drive-killers will force them to punt or settle for field goals, while the Bucs' offense (led by Mayfield) stays on schedule. 3. The "TV Product" Counter-Argument You asked about the "Managed Outcome." While a Panthers win creates "chaos," the NFL also values Star Power in the playoffs. Baker Mayfield and the Buccaneers are a proven national TV draw with recent playoff history. If the league has to choose between "Chaos" (Panthers) and "Ratings/Legitimacy" (Bucs), the "Script" likely leans toward ensuring the Buccaneers—the more marketable team—secure the division lead. They won't "fix" the game against the Panthers, but they won't intervene to save them from their own penalties. Final Verdict Betting on the Panthers requires you to hope for a miracle 4th-quarter collapse. Betting on the Buccaneers requires you to trust that a superior roster—aided by a favorable officiating crew—will control the game for the first 45 minutes. Take the Buccaneers Moneyline. The "Safe" money is on the Ref. The Prediction: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Win and Cover Projected Score: Buccaneers 27, Panthers 17 The Bet: Buccaneers -3 (or Moneyline -165) Confidence Level: High on the Winner; Moderate on the Spread (due to potential "garbage time" variance).
    • He isn't a good HC. I think he has proved that conclusively.
    • The missed tackle percentage is on that screen cap.
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