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PFF Released Their Top 25 WR's Through Week 5


beastson

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I will always welcome a bona fide WR1. That being said...You may not want to hear it, but context absolutely matters! Hurt QB1! Another virtual noob missing receivers, but somehow not missing an opportunity to put the ball on the turf. It's a run-first (CMC-first) offense. Even when we pass, CMC is apparently the human ball magnet. 

Norv ultimately has to be the one to get the receivers going.

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No real surprises there. 

In terms of the NFCS:

  • Godwin and Evans are a very good combo, but I think both of them benefit by the system Arians has brought.  Arians' system is made to feature those guys, and it makes sense given their talent.  The Cardinals WR's were very good several years ago under the same Arians system.
  • Micheal Thomas is very good, but he also gets more WR targets than all the other Saints WR's combined.
  • Julio is the not same player he was 2-3 years ago, but he is still a 1st ballot HOFer.

Regarding the Panthers, I think everyone would like to see more out of Samuel and Moore, but there are a lot of other factors that go into an offense.  We don't have an offense built for the WR's to be the focal point or for their to be a #1 WR like the Saints or Falcons.  

It's also not fair to point out that the Panthers don't have a player on that list without also highlighting the fact the Panthers' offense is currently built around the best non-QB offensive weapon in the league in CMC, a guy who happens to be our best RB and WR.

I think the Panthers are going to need to be more diverse (and push the ball down the field with the WR's) in the offense to have long-term success this season, but while Samuel and Moore are not be the best WR tandem in the league, I do think they are capable of being effective.

Obviously, not having a Pro Bowl WR since 2011 is disappointing, but it's also not like we haven't had good offensive weapons and/or overall offenses during that time.  Olsen put up WR1 numbers for several years as the focal point of our passing offense.  Cam's dynamic ability allowed us to go to a SB with Ted Ginn and Philly Brown starting.

Prior to Michael Thomas, the Saints haven't had a true WR1 for years, and no one would argue their offense wasn't successful b/c they've had a HOF QB spreading the ball around.

Bottom line, I think everyone would like to see more production from the WR group, but I think it is much more of a function of our current situation of having to start our backup, having an offensive line in flux, and having a weapon like CMC that justifies making the entire focal point of the offense.

DJ Moore still has a good chance to get 1000 receiving yards, Samuel is all-around offensive threat, and Wright has made some clutch catches along with Olsen.  Our offense is good enough to be effective right now with good offensive line and QB play.

Also, we are 4th in rushing (without Cam).  That is no small feat.  We're coming off a game where we had 285 rushing yards.  It's hard to be too down on the offense right now just b/c PFF doesn't have us on the top 25 WR list.

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1 hour ago, beastson said:

We haven't had a WR make the pro bowl since 2011 (we're in 2019 in case you forgot) Steve Smith so no I'm not happy at all not having 1 WR on this list especially since each NFCS team got at-least 1. Damn the excuses before you bring em

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-rankings-top-25-wide-receivers-week-5-2019

This is the only excuse I'm offering:

Our front office has finite resources with which to stock the team. While our receiving corps has certainly left a lot to be desired since 2011, I'd note that during that time frame we've inarguably had the best defensive side of the ball in our division.  The salary cap means no team can be strong everywhere over time. The powers that be have chosen to focus on a strong defense. Weaker receiving corps has been one of the consequences. We could choose to focus resources on improving the receiving corps, but it would be at the cost of not spending draft picks or cap space elsewhere.

Personally I'm of the opinion that once we acquired Cam as a franchise back, our focus should have shifted more heavily than it did into investing in our offense. Since one generally expects to find starters in the first 3 rounds of the draft, with starters coming from lower rounds viewed as a bonus, let's look at our draft history since 2011. We've had 24 picks in the first 3 rounds from the 2011 draft til now, not counting Cam himself. Only 10 of those picks have been used on offensive players, or about 40 percent. 

So we drafted Cam and then failed to invest even half of our draft picks over the first 8 years of his career into stocking the offense he was drafted to lead. That's not what I'd call setting yourself up for success, especially when the end result is said franchise qb taking more hits than any other qb due in part to lack of talent surrounding him at skill positions creating a need for him to run frequently on plays not designed to be runs, and lack of talent in the offensive line resulting in consistently poor protection.

So on balance, we've had a generally top caliber defense for the past 8 years, but at the cost of not supporting our franchise qb with the level of talent one would expect to set him up for success.

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Cam couldn’t really get them the ball and the same goes for Allen who looks more and more like a dink and dunk QB. Then we have Norv whose seems to only care about getting Mccaffrey touches.

 

Samuel and Moore on any team with a competent QB and OC would be a deadly combo

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We're on a three game winning streak with two of those opponents tougher than anyone the undefeated Patriots have played all season. (Actually, Arizona now has a win, so three tougher opponents). We're using our back up QB. We have the most explosive ground game going.

Why am I worried?

When they can stop what we are doing, we will begin utilizing the WRs more.

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I think Moore needs more looks. Last year we ran a sweep with him that worked great. Just last week one of the few passes that went his way had him making a crazy Steve Smith-like catch. He is a very good WR, but Norv is wanting this offense ran through CMC. Personally I think CMC needs less touches and we need to use Thomas, Moore and Samuel more often. It might have to do with our offensive line not being able to pass block long enough to give the qb time to throw deeper routes? 

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If you believe the referee influences the game, Smith's presence suggests the Panthers will struggle to get "home cooking" calls and may face untimely procedural flags that stall drives. The Panthers have only had Shawn Smith officiate four home games since he became a head referee in 2018, and they are all losses. Date Opponent Result Score Nov 24, 2024 vs. Kansas City Chiefs Loss 27–30 Oct 9, 2022 vs. San Francisco 49ers Loss 15–37 Dec 12, 2021 vs. Atlanta Falcons Loss 21–29 Nov 25, 2018 vs. Seattle Seahawks Loss 27–30   Considering the how rare it is for Shawn Smith to officiate a Panthers game at all, this seems like an odd time to assign him to a Panthers game, unless the NFL wants to kill the Panthers season once and for all.  The Panthers' offensive line situation creates a "perfect storm" for referee Shawn Smith's specific tendency to call False Starts on the home team. The "Carousel" Factor (Communication Vulnerability) The most damning stat for the Panthers' offensive line in 2025 is their lack of continuity. The Stat: By Week 13, the Panthers had already fielded their 10th different offensive line combination. The Impact: False starts are often "communication penalties"—they happen when a guard doesn't hear the center's snap count or a tackle anticipates the wrong cadence. A unit that hasn't played together struggles with non-verbal communication. The Shawn Smith Multiplier: Shawn Smith’s crew calls False Starts at a high rate on home teams. He will likely look for flinches on the exterior of the line. A disjointed line that is constantly rotating players (due to the injuries of starters like Cade Mays and the illness issues with Robert Hunt earlier this season) is "fresh meat" for this specific referee bias. The Specific Culprits (2025 Penalties) Ikem Ekwonu (LT): Leads the team with 4 False Start penalties this season. He is the most frequent violator on the line. Taylor Moton (RT): Has been flagged for 3 False Starts. The Trap: Smith’s crew often focuses on the tackles (the players furthest from the ball) jumping early to get an edge on speed rushers. Since Ekwonu struggles with this discipline naturally, having a referee who hunts for it is a massive disadvantage. The "Managed Outcome" Synthesis The "Bucs Cover" Script: If the desired outcome is a Buccaneers win to solidify their playoff standing, the officials simply have to apply the letter of the law. Calling strict False Starts on a confused, banged-up Panthers O-line will consistently put them in "3rd and Long" situations, killing their drives and allowing the Bucs (-3.5) to cover easily. The "Close Game" Script: If the desired outcome is "Week 18 Drama" (keeping the division tied), look for the officials to ignore the Panthers' twitchy tackles. If Ekwonu jumps a split-second early and no flag is thrown, it effectively neutralizes the Bucs' pass rush, allowing the Panthers to keep the score close. Summary of the Edge Vulnerability: Extreme. The Panthers are playing backup interior linemen (like Jake Curhan or practice squad call-ups) next to jumpy tackles. Betting Implication: This strongly reinforces the Bucs -3 or -3.5 play. The combination of a "Road Team Referee" and a "Home Team O-Line in chaos" suggests the Panthers will beat themselves with procedural penalties. Based on the collision of the hard data (Referee bias + Offensive Line injuries) and the soft narratives ("Managed Outcomes"), here is the definitive recommendation. If you have to place a single Moneyline bet to win this game straight up: The Pick: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (-165) While the "Entertainment Script" hints at a Panthers upset to keep the division messy, the structural disadvantage the Panthers face in this specific matchup is too massive to ignore. 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    • He isn't a good HC. I think he has proved that conclusively.
    • The missed tackle percentage is on that screen cap.
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