WOW pff stat: cam's time to throw will surprise you!

[MasterAwesome]

5 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

 

Posting Billy Marshall's interpretation of someone else's data (PFF) is not exactly empirical.  It's strange if "Time in pocket" = "Time before pressure arrives", considering PFF has historically used a metric called "Time to pressure"...why would they distinguish the phrasing like that in this case?  And generally speaking, that would be a weird and ambiguous way to define pressure for a QB.

[Newtcase]

This means nothing unless you pair with the average depth of the pass.  Pull up the pass charts and I guarantee you'll find Allen has been throwing deeper passes more often than Cam was.  Guess what, it takes longer for that route to develop, so it shouldn't be shocking that it reflects in how long the ball is held on average.  This is an easy pass for the eye test but I'm sure someone can find the statistic.  Cam's short passes also probably have to do with his shoulder/foot.  I'm not hating on Cam at all here, just saying if you throw it 5 yards 90% of the time, vs throwing it 5 yards 80% of the time it's going to affect this number. 

[Bartin]

3 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

i mean he's quoting from pff, so unless you have a screenshot from pff's site to refute that, i tend to trust billy on where he gets his information concerning his stats from.

I don’t have PFF’s data but I have seen them talk about it before. What I can offer is the NFL’s official next gen stats.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2019/all#average-time-to-throw

Cam 2.37 TT

Allen 2.63 TT

Time To Throw (TT)

Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded).

[1of10Charnatives]

23 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Yea, but he said noticeably, meaning we could tell. 

A quarter of a second is the difference between whether your qb gets the ball out before the pass rush gets there and only takes a hit, or a strip sack that leads to injuries and turnovers. Even less really. A quarter of a second in these terms is huge. Think about how many times a qb, whether ours or the other team's just barely gets the ball off.

[CPcavedweller]

40 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

had to let my inner buzzfeed out with that title.

anyways, this actually is a pretty interesting statistic. 

i mean it does make sense. kyle allen doesn't have to deal with daryl williams at LT, making the oline infinitely better, hence why he has more time in the pocket and time to throw. cam didn't have that luxury nor did he have a good foot.

CMC also isn't being targetted 12 times a game with Allen like he was with Cam. Cam simply made his first read and then looked to McCaffrey. Allen scans almost the entirety of the field and escapes the pocket while still scanning for receivers before dumping to McCaffrey. Therefor, I believe an adjustment to that time is needed. Perhaps make a metric of air yards per millisecond to truly get a grasp on where passes are going. 

This stat, in a vacuum, is useless. CMC had 107 receptions in 2018 because Cam dumped the ball off 55% of the time. Allen does not. 

Start Allen. 5-0. Lets get Allen to 6-0 and be 1 game out of the 1st seed going into Week 9. 

[CPcavedweller]

8 minutes ago, Bartin said:

I don’t have PFF’s data but I have seen them talk about it before. What I can offer is the NFL’s official next gen stats.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2019/all#average-time-to-throw

Cam 2.37 TT

Allen 2.63 TT

Time To Throw (TT)

Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded).

Now change it to something more useful like Air Yards per Millisecond (TT). 

[rico6]

16 minutes ago, ChibCU said:

Imagine this:

QB1 is unable to throw deep balls

QB2 is able to throw deep balls

Would that possibly alter average throwing time? #sacafail

Post Kyle’s “deep ball” stats, they’re not good. 

I hate having to interject dumb fan speak to belittle Kyle, but holy poo this narrative needs to fuging die.

[uncfan888]

46 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Who the hell is billy marshall?

Just a random guy that saca loves to follow. I think he's kind of annoying on Twitter, tbh

[*FreeFua*]

1 minute ago, rico6 said:

Post Kyle’s “deep ball” stats, they’re not good. 

I hate having to interject dumb fan speak to belittle Kyle, but holy poo this narrative needs to fuging die.

Yeah Allen’s deep ball has not been pretty. 
 

There was no excuse for him to miss Samuel as bad as he did Sunday. Samuel had inside position and all the space in the damn world and Allen threw it in the only place Samuel couldn’t get it 

[Bartin]

Here’s an entire article on the explanation of time to throw from PFF

https://www.pff.com/news/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw

“Time to Throw

We introduced time to throw data for the 2011 season, and it opened up an entirely new way of looking at the game. Initial instincts tell us that time to throw is a function of an offensive line’s ability to protect the quarterback, but we’ve found that it’s better used as an indicator of a quarterback’s style and a team’s offensive scheme.

It’s no coincidence that pocket quarterbacks like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady consistently rank among the fastest releases in the league as they’re rightly touted for their quick decision making and ability to work within the flow of the offense, and their pocket stats back this up.

On the other hand, some of the younger, more mobile quarterbacks in the league such as Cam Newton, Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, and even Andrew Luck have much higher times to throw, and it’s not because they’re getting more time from their line, but moreso because they’re either looking to extend plays with their legs, trying to take more downfield shots, or some combination of both.

There’s no right or wrong when it comes to time in the pocket, but it’s a great look at both what a quarterback and scheme are trying to do and each quarterback’s strengths and weaknesses when using a quick release or when given time to sit in the pocket.”

The article is from 2014 but the stat hasn’t changed. You will also notice that at that time Cam had one of the highest times to throw in the entire NFL and in 2014 the OL was absolutely garbage.

It’s not a stat that means one thing. There are dozens of factors at play and taking it out of context to spin a false narrative like Billy is doing is a disservice. The stat doesn’t know the difference between a 1.5 second quick WR screen and 1.5 second pressure that forces a throw.

It’s roughly the equivalent of saying Allen is 4-0 and Cam is 0-2 therefore Allen is obviously the superior quarterback and Cam should be cut. It ignores all of the context that Cam was injured, the defense has helped Allen a lot and that CMC is a beast.

[BrianS]

Here.  Sorted by time to throw.

Interestingly, Cam Newton is the fastest in the league at getting the ball out this year.  Which of course doesn't tell you much of anything.

Detractors would say "He's making one read and then checking it down".  Fanboys would say "He's getting it out faster than anyone".

Either could be right or wrong, and the truth probably lies somewhere in between. 

When you look at the league as a whole, you see successful QB's from top to bottom there.  Aaron Rodgers is second to last for heaven's sake.  (Our pass rush has got to look at that and go "Snack time!")  But seriously, Time to Throw just doesn't tell you much.

 

[Moo Daeng]

Wow....super Billy Marshall fail. Pure hack

 

[ChibCU]

Just now, rico6 said:

Post Kyle’s “deep ball” stats, they’re not good. 

I hate having to interject dumb fan speak to belittle Kyle, but holy poo this narrative needs to fuging die.

Being able to attempt a deep ball versus being unable to attempt a deep ball. Are you able to put the pieces together now, rico?

[twylyght]

30 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

i mean he's quoting from pff, so unless you have a screenshot from pff's site to refute that, i tend to trust billy on where he gets his information concerning his stats from.

Pretty sure everyone is sourcing from here:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing

Under their glossary, they have it as follows:

Quote

Time To Throw (TT)

Time to Throw measures the average amount of time elapsed from the time of snap to throw on every pass attempt for a passer (sacks excluded).