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Draft Analysis: "A massive value-destroying error"?


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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, CRA said:

Because in one year you have the Cam fiasco, you have the Teddy mistake, you force yourself into having to trade and get Sam, Teddy is such a cluster your have to pay him to be the Denver QB....and after all that a QB falls into your lap? 

Fields seems like another log that draws more attention to a mess the org has made in a short window.   Plus, the fans/media would have demanded Fields IMO.  You kind of make Sam an instant mistake by an org that really doesn’t need to take one in the moment. 

Given the lotto hit success of QBs?  I’d probably roll with Sam and pass on Fields too with all that if in Rhule’s shoes. ... I think Sam was the better short term answer for Rhule and company.  2021 season in general.   As a long time Panther fan...I’m more interested in finding the next Cam though.  

I agree that they didn't handle Cam or Teddy well. That said, they were not forced to trade for Sam. There were more than five QBs in the draft, plus free agent QBs. They traded for Darnold because they wanted to, not because they had to.

You think Fields would have been another mistake. Others may feel that he would have been a solution to the problem had they drafted him.

If this is another rebuild year, Rhule doesn't have to worry about wins as much, so Darnold being a short term answer doesn't matter. Rhule just has to show that the team is buying into what he is saying and showing some improvement. 2022 and beyond will be a different story though.

I'm a long time Panther fan as well. You wanting the next Cam is your problem. I want the guy that can help the team become a consistent winner and finally have back to back winning seasons.

Edit: Just saw your other post about not finding a Cam clone, but a franchise QB. You should have just said franchise QB instead of the next Cam.

Edited by jayboogieman
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10 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

I agree that they didn't handle Cam or Teddy well. That said, they were not forced to trade for Sam. There were more than five QBs in the draft, plus free agent QBs. They traded for Darnold because they wanted to, not because they had to.

You think Fields would have been another mistake. Others may feel that he would have been a solution to the problem had they drafted him.

If this is another rebuild year, Rhule doesn't have to worry about wins as much, so Darnold being a short term answer doesn't matter. Rhule just has to show that the team is buying into what he is saying and showing some improvement. 2022 and beyond will be a different story though.

I'm a long time Panther fan as well. You wanting the next Cam is your problem. I want the guy that can help the team become a consistent winner and finally have back to back winning seasons.

Well, they created a scenario where Teddy couldn’t remain here and there were decent odds a QB might not fall to 8....and they only have PJ and Will.   What type scenario is that?

You don’t want an elite and franchise QB?   I mean that can my problem.   Seems like that should be common ground for all of us.   I don’t know a lot of teams that have pulled off being consistent winners without one.  We had one and still struggled with the consistent part. 

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Just now, CRA said:

Well, they created a scenario where Teddy couldn’t remain here and there were decent odds a QB might not fall to 8....and they only have PJ and Will.   What type scenario is that?

You don’t want an elite and franchise QB?   I mean that can my problem.   Seems like that should be common ground for all of us.   I don’t know a lot of teams that have pulled off being a consistent winners without one.  We had one and still struggled with the consistent part. 

With Teddy or without Teddy, they still could have drafted a QB or signed a free agent QB. There were options.

I had edited my post after I saw your reply to MrScot. You should have just said franchise QB instead of the next Cam if that is what you meant.

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4 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

With Teddy or without Teddy, they still could have drafted a QB or signed a free agent QB. There were options.

I had edited my post after I saw your reply to MrScot. You should have just said franchise QB instead of the next Cam if that is what you meant.

Well, there was no with Teddy option after a certain point...and there were odds none of the top tier prospects would be there.   

That’s why I wanted Sam in that moment.  He was the right move then.   They got that right IMO considering where we found ourselves.  Best move
 

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20 minutes ago, CRA said:

The next Cam was simply referring to finding another franchise and elite QB.   It wasn’t about finding someone that plays the game like Cam.  But I see why that could be unclear.

Until we do, I just don’t think much matters in the NFL.     

 

And we might have one.

We don't know, but the team's personnel people believe it's possible.

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2 minutes ago, CRA said:

Well, there was no with Teddy option after a certain point...and there were odds none of the top tier prospect would be there.   

That’s  why I wanted Sam in that moment.  He was the right move then.  

The Panthers still had other options besides Teddy and the top prospects. They could have easily taken Mond, Trask, or any of the other QBs in the draft.

So Sam is a franchise QB?

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14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And we might have one.

We don't know, but the team's personnel people believe it's possible.

I just play the odds.  How many have turned into one...after disappointing for 3 years as a starter with the team that drafted him to be one. 

seems like the smartest money is on considering him a bandaid to get by until we can find someone else.   If he surprises, he surprises.   That was Teddy.  That is Darnold.   That’s been a million guys at many positions.  Sometimes they surprise.  Mostly they don’t.  

and we have an entertaining year and win some games.  

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3 minutes ago, CRA said:

I just play the odds.  How many have turned into one...after disappointing for 3 years as a starter with the team that drafted him to be one. 

seems like the smartest money is on considering him a bandaid to get by until we can find someone else.   If he surprises, he surprises.   That was Teddy.  That is Darnold.  

Playing the odds would have meant not spending a high pick on a Florida State pass rusher. Or, for that matter, on an Ohio State quarterback.

Can't always play it safe.

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Rhule and Fitterer want to build on both sides of the ball and have the utmost confidence in Darnold. The thing is that Rhule and Fit have enough time to miss on a QB and still keep their jobs. If Darnold flops they won't be fired. They still have a safety net due to their long contracts and general timeline expectations.

If Darnold flops, then I seriously doubt we take a long shot on another 78 passer rated QB. We won't do this again because Rhule and Fit will be running out of time to build a winner. It's Darnold wins or we start drafting 1st round QBs imo.

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6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Playing the odds would have meant not spending a high pick on a Florida State pass rusher. Or, for that matter, on an Ohio State quarterback.

Can't always play it safe.

Well, the draft is the lottery.  Might as well go big where you need it the most.   We did that with Cam.   That has always been my preference.

Cam was more controversial than some remember 
 

 

 

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Just reading the op. Laughing...

I would counter Sam Donald as our 1st around draft pick and we got Horn in the 1st, while only having 1 1st round pick. Let's see what Rhule and Brady can do in a couple of years before we judge. Gase seems to have not been the best coach. Hell, Lawrence is going to need a couple of years before being judged. Off with the clickbait.

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One thing that I think we can all agree on is that Darnold has certainly bought into representing/participating with team shenanigans in just the few weeks he's been with us, vs the weeks (dare I say months?) where Teddy took his time to change his Twitter photo from a Saints graphic to anything else. 

Likely has nothing to do with the thread topic, other than "value" can be calculated in many different ways.

#TrustTheProcess

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9 hours ago, CRA said:

they used too many words to say something simple.

Drafting a player that turns into the best RB or DB in the entire NFL....doesn't actually mean anything in today's NFL.  That isn't how you go about winning in today's NFL.   Those are complimentary pieces to your QB driven team. 

The key to real and lasting NFL success is finding a QB.   Nothing really matters until you find one.  Can you win without one? Maybe.  But it generally is a one year fluke and you are right back to not mattering. 

 

Agreed.  In today's NFL though - it seems there are more 'franchise defining' QBs than ever before.

How many QBs are there that you think are capable to build around and win the big game?

Murray, Stafford, Wilson, Burrow(?), Mayfield, L Jackson, Big Ben (?), Herbert, Mahomes, Brady, Matt Ryan, J Allen, Goff, Rodgers, Cousins (?), Wentz (?), Watson, Tannehill, Dak Prescott, Hurts...

It's a passing league, sure, but what is often separating the success of that rather large list above isn't the talent of the QB (of course that is not an absolute).

Having a competent QB is super important.  No you are not going to win in today's NFL with Trent Dilfer... but I also don't see this like the 90's where you had like 6 HoF QBs in the league that were the only guys worth investing in.

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