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Moton signed to 4 year, $72M deal

AndrewLaskoski

By AndrewLaskoski,
in Carolina Panthers

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hepcat Grand Master

hepcat

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

 

I would be interested to see what your list would be? I get 7, or 8 depending on my mood.

Elite players on the Panthers? It’s CMC and Moton. That’s it.

Burns could get there quickly. Maybe Chinn, or Derrick Brown if he keeps improving. I hope Horn becomes elite given his NFL bloodline.

After those guys, I don’t think there’s anyone even in the conversation for “elite”.

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iamhubby1 Veteran

iamhubby1

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Elite players on the Panthers? It’s CMC and Moton. That’s it.

Burns could get there quickly. Maybe Chinn, or Derrick Brown if he keeps improving. I hope Horn becomes elite given his NFL bloodline.

After those guys, I don’t think there’s anyone even in the conversation for “elite”.

 

Riddick had a great year last year. If he has another one this year, would that not be great? What about DJ? We have to count him. Arnold is a guy who has a chance at a big year. Not a lot of chatter around his name.But yeah, other than the kids we think have talent, that's pretty much it...for now.

 

 So...Elite-CMC, Moton, Burns, DJ

Maybe-Chinn, Brown, Horn, and maybe Riddick

 

Not bad, not great. But it is a pretty good start.

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hepcat Grand Master

hepcat

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Posted
7 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

Riddick had a great year last year. If he has another one this year, would that not be great? What about DJ? We have to count him. Arnold is a guy who has a chance at a big year. Not a lot of chatter around his name.But yeah, other than the kids we think have talent, that's pretty much it...for now.

 

 So...Elite-CMC, Moton, Burns, DJ

Maybe-Chinn, Brown, Horn, and maybe Riddick

 

Not bad, not great. But it is a pretty good start.

We have crazy different definitions of an elite player. To me an elite player is someone who could be first or second team all-pro any given season. You’re just talking about players with potential at this point. Currently elite players on the team, it’s just CMC and Moton. 

Burns is not elite. Yet. He hasn’t even had a double digit sack season. But he’s clearly the closest player on the team to becoming an elite player. 

Horn, Brown, Chinn - all guys who are too early to say. Potential is there though.

DJ is not elite. He is a good WR. TD production lacking and that could be QB caused, but his numbers and impact is not elite.

Reddick? He has miles to go to be considered elite. He had most of his sacks in one game last season. He got let go from his previous team for a reason, because he’s wildly inconsistent. 

And you’re talking about Dan Arnold becoming an elite player? Cmon man. The rose colored homer glasses are just too much!

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iamhubby1 Veteran

iamhubby1

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3 hours ago, hepcat said:

We have crazy different definitions of an elite player. To me an elite player is someone who could be first or second team all-pro any given season. You’re just talking about players with potential at this point. Currently elite players on the team, it’s just CMC and Moton. 

Burns is not elite. Yet. He hasn’t even had a double digit sack season. But he’s clearly the closest player on the team to becoming an elite player. 

Horn, Brown, Chinn - all guys who are too early to say. Potential is there though.

DJ is not elite. He is a good WR. TD production lacking and that could be QB caused, but his numbers and impact is not elite.

Reddick? He has miles to go to be considered elite. He had most of his sacks in one game last season. He got let go from his previous team for a reason, because he’s wildly inconsistent. 

And you’re talking about Dan Arnold becoming an elite player? Cmon man. The rose colored homer glasses are just too much!

 

Did you actually read my list? Or did you just respond to the first paragraph?

 

And show me a fan without Rose Colored Glasses. And I'll show you a fan that has other interests. Every Die Hard Fan wears em. I mean, if you are a fan, and don't wear them? Why be a fan? 

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hepcat Grand Master

hepcat

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

Did you actually read my list? Or did you just respond to the first paragraph?

 

And show me a fan without Rose Colored Glasses. And I'll show you a fan that has other interests. Every Die Hard Fan wears em. I mean, if you are a fan, and don't wear them? Why be a fan? 

Yes I read your post…You responded to my post asking what other players on the team I consider elite, I told you. There’s CMC and Moton. You mentioned a bunch of average to good players. I responded saying why they clearly aren’t elite players. 

You don’t need to be wildly over-optimistic to be a true fan. I’m just being real. The team just re-signed the only other elite player on this team than CMC and for that I am happy. Keeping elite talent is how you win games. 

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iamhubby1 Veteran

iamhubby1

Posted
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47 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Yes I read your post…You responded to my post asking what other players on the team I consider elite, I told you. There’s CMC and Moton. You mentioned a bunch of average to good players. I responded saying why they clearly aren’t elite players. 

You don’t need to be wildly over-optimistic to be a true fan. I’m just being real. The team just re-signed the only other elite player on this team than CMC and for that I am happy. Keeping elite talent is how you win games. 

 

Oh, I get it now. Because I wear Rose Colored Homer Glasses, I can't be right? But because you keep it real, you are right?

 

PFF has Burns @19, and 1 of the top Edge Rusher under 25. But that's not Elite? 

 

DJ has back to back 1200 yd seasons, with 5 different QBs. But that's not Elite? 

 

If keeping it real, means you can undervalue our players, I'll pass  But I am going to continue to give credit where credit is due.

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iamhubby1 Veteran

iamhubby1

Posted
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24 minutes ago, PantherKyle said:

Elite is a big term to throw around. DJ can become it, but he certainly is not an elite wr yet. Cmc and Moton are elite. Burns is fringe and I think cements himself as elite this year. Chinn and Brown have the potential. 

 

The same DJ Moore who has 3200yds in his first 3 years? Back to Back 1200 yd seasons, with 5 different QBs. That DJ Moore? Seems Elite to me. But it's your opinion, so there you go.

 

My point was more about the fact that we have 7-8 really talented kids. With more on the way. This team is trending upwards. And I just wish more folks could be as excited as I, and my fellow Sunshine Squad members are.

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Reebis21 Collaborator

Reebis21

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, iamhubby1 said:

And show me a fan without Rose Colored Glasses. And I'll show you a fan that has other interests. Every Die Hard Fan wears em. I mean, if you are a fan, and don't wear them? Why be a fan?

This is why it’s sometimes hard having conversations with people on here. I love the enthusiasm but this comment leads me to believe when discussing the panthers ur views are more biased than objective. Nobody is gunna take yours or anybody else’s fan card for being objective.

I’ll say this for the 1000th time. DJ is currently not elite and outside of this fanbase, I’d bet 99% agree. Doesn’t mean he can’t get there. But his stats don’t equate to difference maker.

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iamhubby1 Veteran

iamhubby1

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12 minutes ago, Reebis21 said:

This is why it’s sometimes hard having conversations with people on here. I love the enthusiasm but this comment leads me to believe when discussing the panthers ur views are more biased than objective. Nobody is gunna take yours or anybody else’s fan card for being objective.

I’ll say this for the 1000th time. DJ is currently not elite and outside of this fanbase, I’d bet 99% agree. Doesn’t mean he can’t get there. But his stats don’t equate to difference maker.

 

I get what you are saying. But I was responding to someone who told me to take my Rose Colored Homer Glasses off. 

 

As to Moore? What else does he have to do for you to give him the credit he deserves?

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, PantherKyle said:

Elite is a big term to throw around. DJ can become it, but he certainly is not an elite wr yet. Cmc and Moton are elite. Burns is fringe and I think cements himself as elite this year. Chinn and Brown have the potential. 

Not trying to single you out in this but speaking in general it is tiring how folks will dump on one player and prop up others. Even if DJ Moore isn't elite he is quite good. Just because the Panthers have given #22 the most touches in the whole damn league so he could get his 1k/1k season doesn't mean Moore isn't being held back by poor passing. If we can actually get the ball to him who knows what his ceiling is.

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AU-panther Mentor

AU-panther

Posted
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Elite is a subjective term

Is it top 3, top 5, top 10% at their position.

Is CMC top 5 at his position?  I would say yes.

Is Moton top 5 at this position? I would say yes.

Is Burns top 5?  Maybe, maybe not but there are usually two edge rushers on the field at a time so maybe top 10 should be the threshold.

Same with WRs, there are 64 starting ones, and more if you count slot.  Is Moore top 10?  Lets be honest there are a lot of good WRs in the league right now.

Maybe its not as easy as a set number threshold but a performance threshold.  Are there alot of WRs that play at elite levels.

Personally I think people get too caught up into ranks, I try to keep it simple.

Moton is a top tier RT and he got paid as such.

CMC is a top tier RB and got paid as such.

Moore is a top tier WR, imo, and will get paid as much.

Burns is a top tier edge and will get paid as much.

After that they guys aren't top tier or still unproven.

Will Brown and Chinn develop into that?  I hope so, they showed some good signs their first year.

Most teams only have a handful of elite guys and honestly the way the cap is structured you can only pay a few and honestly QBs, even average ones teak up one of the expensive slots.

Paying elite players elite money doesn't hurt you, most of the time you don't have enough elite players to really cost you too much.  Teams get in trouble when they pay average players elite money, or below average players good money.

We paid CMC a few years ago.

Paid Shaq a decent amount.

Paid Moton this year.

Probably Moore next.

Burns after that.

After that you will probably have someone like Brown or Chinn, at that point one of the earlier guys will be off the books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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