Offensive Philosophy: The Tortoise vs The Hare

[Mr. Scot]

Recent comments from Joe Brady about Sam Darnold...

“I think what he’s doing a great job at right now is he’s making great decisions,” the second-year coordinator said of his starting quarterback. “He’s comfortable in the system, he’s playing within the system, he’s taking what the defense is giving us. That’s what excites me.”

...

“I have something with him. I’m confident in Sam. I feel like he has a great grasp of the offense right now,” he said.

Link

"Taking what the defense gives you" probably doesn't sound all that exciting to fans...but it works.

Under Ron Rivera, the primary engine of the offense was big plays. Rivera followed the same philosophy as Buddy Ryan, asking a dynamic quarterback to make a few big plays per game on offense while his defense handled the rest.

Sometimes it worked. Frequently it didn't.

Rhule and Brady prefer a more consistent, steady approach; chipping away at the defense until eventually you break them down. Drew Brees built a whole career on doing that, and beat us pretty often in the process. It was maddening to sit there and watch them dink and dunk and dink and dunk until before you knew it they were at the 5 yard line and you were wondering what the hell happened.

But the thing is...that's our methodology now.

I get it that some folks might find this approach boring as opposed to the high flying big plays and such of the past, but to me the most exciting thing is winning.

And lemme tell ya, it's possible to do a whole lot of that using this type of offensive system.

Just ask our old buddy, Drew...

[PootieNunu]

The dinking and dunking is fine to an extent but the D has to have fear of the deep ball or this will turn into Teddy 2.0.

Too much of that without taking shots or even being unable to take those shots like Cam was late in his time here because of the injury and the dink and dunk will be smothered. 

[kungfoodude]

It's a fine line. For instance, Teddy always took the safest and quickest option instead of gambling. He was cautious to a fault and hampered the offense as a result. Darnold, by his nature, is a gunslinger. Hence why we saw so many awful and ill advised INT's in his career. He leans towards trying to make the big play like most gunslingers do. 

We just need to get him somewhere in the middle of that scale. "Taking what the defense gives you" while also having the nuts to make throws to score and try to make plays when they are needed. 

[imminent rogaine]

I thought Teddy’s dinking and dunking were just fine. Would have been even better with CMC. I like getting the ball out of the QB’s hands and into the hands of DJ, Robby, or CMC. 
The problem for me was the interceptions and the impotent red-zone offense. If you are throwing short, quick, safe passes, you better not be throwing interceptions ESPECIALLY in the god damn end-zone. Interceptions are something you live with when you are chucking it down field and taking risks; not throwing 6 yard passes over and over.

[Mills]

Dinking and dunking is also situational.

5 yards on 1st and 10 is a hell of a lot different than Teddy throwing a 5 yard curl on 3rd and 8.

[mav1234]

The real test will be the red zone offense, where the field is condensed so harder to dink and dunk.

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, imminent rogaine said:

I thought Teddy’s dinking and dunking were just fine. Would have been even better with CMC. I like getting the ball out of the QB’s hands and into the hands of DJ, Robby, or CMC. 
The problem for me was the interceptions and the impotent red-zone offense. If you are throwing short, quick, safe passes, you better not be throwing interceptions ESPECIALLY in the god damn end-zone. Interceptions are something you live with when you are chucking it down field and taking risks; not throwing 6 yard passes over and over.

The dinking and dunking aren't fine if there are better options available downfield. 

[run-run-pass-punt]

As with most plans of attack, variety, adaptability and unpredictability are the key imho. Hopefully we get it done.

[thefuzz]

Personally, I'd prefer to be able to cater the offensive style after the opponent, but we simply aren't there yet as a team...maybe one day.

[Ricky Spanish]

32 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It's a fine line. For instance, Teddy always took the safest and quickest option instead of gambling. He was cautious to a fault and hampered the offense as a result. Darnold, by his nature, is a gunslinger. Hence why we saw so many awful and ill advised INT's in his career. He leans towards trying to make the big play like most gunslingers do. 

We just need to get him somewhere in the middle of that scale. "Taking what the defense gives you" while also having the nuts to make throws to score and try to make plays when they are needed. 

I will say, watching some of Sam's INT's from the past, a good number of them were him trying to play hero ball and trying to make a big play happen when the play broke down, or the team was in a bind. That kind of stuff CAN be coached out - If the coaching staff is halfway decent. 

Honestly, the fact he threw one of his two passes out of the endzone on Sunday shows that he might actually be making progress because in years past, I'm not sure if he would have done the same thing instead of forcing a ball into the EZ to make a big play. 

I remain cautiously optimistic. 

[CRA]

Yeah, Joe Brady and Sean Payton don’t employ the dink and dink mindset.   At least not in NO historically (Payton/Brees in their prime) and LSU’s record year.  

they suck you in for the purpose of hitting you deep.  The downfield ball being a key component.  A complete and balanced pass attack.  

 

 

[SetfreexX]

46 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

The dinking and dunking is fine to an extent but the D has to have fear of the deep ball or this will turn into Teddy 2.0.

Too much of that without taking shots or even being unable to take those shots like Cam was late in his time here because of the injury and the dink and dunk will be smothered. 

I think that is what the staff realized over the course of the season, remember that 4th and 9 play, and Teddy through the shallow 2 yard crosser...

I think that was the point where they knew internally he was reluctant to throw it down field regularly when available. 

IMO TB plays to protect his stats aka maintaining 60+ % completion, he knew he wasn't guaranteed anything outside of an absurd amount of money, but as we all saw getting out of that contract wasn't too difficult. 

I think he played for the next stop, keep the % up, and the turnovers low and you'll always have a job, he got his 20+M and moved on. 

[Mr. Scot]

46 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

We just need to get him somewhere in the middle of that scale. "Taking what the defense gives you" while also having the nuts to make throws to score and try to make plays when they are needed. 

That's the idea.

A true WCO does include the deep ball. They just don't live and die by it like some of the Coryell offenses do.

When you don't have that aspect, the criticism is that the WCO becomes a "horizontal offense".

(like what we saw last year)

[Mr. Scot]

31 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

The real test will be the red zone offense, where the field is condensed so harder to dink and dunk.

WCO attacks are heavily dependent on run after the catch.

With guys like McCaffrey, DJ and others, we have a good amount of that ability available to us.