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No more Watson threads. Use this one or one of the other 20 existing ones.


rayzor
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Just now, USDepartmentOfSavagery said:

Another point I don’t think has been made is that the Panthers have remained interested throughout Watsons entire ordeal. There is something to be said about loyalty and I wonder if Watson considers this. 

Exactly. If he values loyalty at all (which I'm sure he does after this whole ordeal) then we should be his top choice.

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5 minutes ago, frankw said:

Even with all that they still won nine games and competed for the division while we were the worst. The question is can the new head coach replicate what Payton had.

I feel good about saying that the HC cannot replicate one of the best HC in the league. Also, as bad as we were we still split with them last year and very well could have won game 2

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15 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

So out of curiosity what team do you plan to cheer for? 

JR was a racist piece of poo. 

Based on what?  What you will find is many articles with variations of the EXACT same occurrence...when JR was under scrutiny it was "said" he made ONE comment about ONE scout and it could have been implied to be racist.   Please, outside that one allegation that was hearsay, provide me with evidence JR was this renounced racist.  I'll wait.

JR was on the outs with the League and it was a power grab, I have no doubt.  Yes, he sold on "his own terms" but he was being forced out.  I have not doubt his tenure with the Panthers was coming to it's natural end, but I also have ZERO doubt in my mind if he had the choice, REAL CHOICE...to sale the Panthers on his own terms, David Tepper would have been at the BOTTOM of his list.

Edited by 45catfan
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11 minutes ago, frankw said:

Even with all that they still won nine games and competed for the division while we were the worst. The question is can the new head coach replicate what Payton had.

all that is a problem for a franchise with no money for 2022 and 2023... We can't say all that like that isnt a problem for a franchise. Saints are on a downward slope.

and I am sure we can both agree not having Payton is only going to pile on. 

Edited by TheCasillas
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4 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Dead serious.  But i'm talking about since they changed the management, bringing in Fitterer/Morgan and the cap guru.  I should have made that clear.  Not talking about hiring Rhule or anything Hurney did.  We all can agree the Rhule hire is not working out and Hurney did not draft well and overcompensated certain positions.  I would have moved on from Rhule this year, but I can understand giving him one more year to implement his program.

I think the guys they drafted last year are all solid.  We could end up with 5-6 starters including a shut-down corner and a long term solution at LT in one draft.

They didn't sign any free agents for ridiculous money.  They got something for TB even though he was damaged goods.  They got EJ Henderson, a top 10 talent, for a 3rd.  The Anderson extension looks bad when Sam was QB, but will look much different with a legit OC and Watson throwing the ball.

Jury's still out on most of this.  But again, the only truly damaging miscalculation was the Darnold option.  Move that contract with this deal and we may be ok.

  Rhule had total control in year one and last year. The cap guru was hired 2 weeks after Rhule was hired. Hurney’s last decision was Shaq’s contract before Rhule was hired. The cap guru was here for Teddy, CMC, Boston, Okung,KK, Weatherly, Roberts, and all of the first year mistakes. Plus Robby’s awful extension, Erving, Henderson hasn’t done a thing yet, Elflein, on top of the Darnold option.  Teams don’t get in the position this team is in because they make a lot of good decisions. Results just say the opposite of the sunny scenario you always present. And giving a backup TE 5.5M/yr doesn’t seem to say they learned anything. 

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1 minute ago, Pantherzilla91 said:

What boggles my mind is that we literally just watched a team trade multiple 1st round picks for a QB and go on to win the Super Bowl yet some of these bozo fans want to "build through the draft" which could take YEARS and even then is no guarantee

Except one of those teams has been a SB contender for 4-5 seasons and the other one is the Carolina Panthers.

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5 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Based on what?  What you will find is many variations of the EXACT same thing...when JR was under scrutiny it was "said" he made ONE comment about ONE scout and it could have been implied to be racist.   Please, outside that one allegation that was hearsay, provide me with evidence JR was this renounced racist.  I'll wait.

JR was on the outs with the League and it was a power grab, I have no doubt.  Yes, he sold on "his own terms" but he was being forced out.  I have not doubt his tenure with the Panthers was coming to it's natural end, but I also have ZERO doubt in my mind if he had the choice to sale the Panthers on his own terms, David Tepper would have been at the BOTTOM of his list.

Based on him settling for a substantial monetary amount for him using a racial slur against a scout. Also being referred to as just Mister. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/17/jerry-richardson-carolina-panthers-settlements-workplace-misconduct-sexual-harassment-racial-slur

I guess you like JR and the orange man. 

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    • The referee assigned to this game is Shawn Smith. This is a critical data point for betting purposes because his crew has one of the most distinct, long-term statistical biases in the NFL. "Road Team" Bias: Historically, Shawn Smith is known as the "Road Team Referee." In a league where home teams usually win ~55% of the time, home teams in Smith's games have historically won at a rate far below league average (often hovering around 40-42%). Against The Spread (ATS): The trend is even starker here. Home teams have covered the spread at a rate of roughly 37-40% in his career. The Mechanism: Analysis shows his crew tends to call a higher rate of False Start and Unnecessary Roughness penalties on the Home Team. This negates the traditional home-field advantage (crowd noise causing false starts for the visitors). Impact on This Game: This specific assignment heavily favors the Buccaneers (Road Team). If you believe the referee influences the game, Smith's presence suggests the Panthers will struggle to get "home cooking" calls and may face untimely procedural flags that stall drives. The Panthers have only had Shawn Smith officiate four home games since he became a head referee in 2018, and they are all losses. Date Opponent Result Score Nov 24, 2024 vs. Kansas City Chiefs Loss 27–30 Oct 9, 2022 vs. San Francisco 49ers Loss 15–37 Dec 12, 2021 vs. Atlanta Falcons Loss 21–29 Nov 25, 2018 vs. Seattle Seahawks Loss 27–30 Considering the how rare it is for Shawn Smith to officiate a Panthers game at all, this seems like an odd time to assign him to a Panthers game, unless the NFL wants to kill the Panthers season once and for all.  The Panthers' offensive line situation creates a "perfect storm" for referee Shawn Smith's specific tendency to call False Starts on the home team. The "Carousel" Factor (Communication Vulnerability) The most damning stat for the Panthers' offensive line in 2025 is their lack of continuity. The Stat: By Week 13, the Panthers had already fielded their 10th different offensive line combination. The Impact: False starts are often "communication penalties"—they happen when a guard doesn't hear the center's snap count or a tackle anticipates the wrong cadence. A unit that hasn't played together struggles with non-verbal communication. The Shawn Smith Multiplier: Shawn Smith’s crew calls False Starts at a high rate on home teams. He will likely look for flinches on the exterior of the line. A disjointed line that is constantly rotating players (due to the injuries of starters like Cade Mays and the illness issues with Robert Hunt earlier this season) is "fresh meat" for this specific referee bias. The Specific Culprits (2025 Penalties) Ikem Ekwonu (LT): Leads the team with 4 False Start penalties this season. He is the most frequent violator on the line. Taylor Moton (RT): Has been flagged for 3 False Starts. The Trap: Smith’s crew often focuses on the tackles (the players furthest from the ball) jumping early to get an edge on speed rushers. Since Ekwonu struggles with this discipline naturally, having a referee who hunts for it is a massive disadvantage. The "Managed Outcome" Synthesis The "Bucs Cover" Script: If the desired outcome is a Buccaneers win to solidify their playoff standing, the officials simply have to apply the letter of the law. Calling strict False Starts on a confused, banged-up Panthers O-line will consistently put them in "3rd and Long" situations, killing their drives and allowing the Bucs (-3.5) to cover easily. The "Close Game" Script: If the desired outcome is "Week 18 Drama" (keeping the division tied), look for the officials to ignore the Panthers' twitchy tackles. If Ekwonu jumps a split-second early and no flag is thrown, it effectively neutralizes the Bucs' pass rush, allowing the Panthers to keep the score close. Summary of the Edge Vulnerability: Extreme. The Panthers are playing backup interior linemen (like Jake Curhan or practice squad call-ups) next to jumpy tackles. Betting Implication: This strongly reinforces the Bucs -3 or -3.5 play. The combination of a "Road Team Referee" and a "Home Team O-Line in chaos" suggests the Panthers will beat themselves with procedural penalties. Based on the collision of the hard data (Referee bias + Offensive Line injuries) and the soft narratives ("Managed Outcomes"), here is the definitive recommendation. If you have to place a single Moneyline bet to win this game straight up: The Pick: Tampa Bay Buccaneers (-165) While the "Entertainment Script" hints at a Panthers upset to keep the division messy, the structural disadvantage the Panthers face in this specific matchup is too massive to ignore. Here is why the Buccaneers are the stong moneyline play: 1. The "Shawn Smith" Road-Field Advantage This is the decisive factor. In the NFL, Home Field Advantage usually accounts for about 1.5 to 2 points of value. The Reality: Referee Shawn Smith negates that advantage entirely. His crew calls penalties in a way that historically suppresses home crowd momentum (False Starts, holding). The Result: You are essentially getting the Buccaneers on a neutral field (or even a "pseudo-home" field) against a team with a worse roster. 2. The "Drive-Killer" Synergy To win as an underdog, the Panthers need to play a clean, mistake-free game to keep drives alive. The combination of Panthers' 10th O-Line combo + Jump-prone Tackles (Ekwonu) + A Referee who hunts False Starts is a recipe for disaster. The Scenario: Expect the Panthers to face multiple "1st and 15" or "3rd and 12" situations due to procedural flags. These drive-killers will force them to punt or settle for field goals, while the Bucs' offense (led by Mayfield) stays on schedule. 3. The "TV Product" Counter-Argument You asked about the "Managed Outcome." While a Panthers win creates "chaos," the NFL also values Star Power in the playoffs. Baker Mayfield and the Buccaneers are a proven national TV draw with recent playoff history. If the league has to choose between "Chaos" (Panthers) and "Ratings/Legitimacy" (Bucs), the "Script" likely leans toward ensuring the Buccaneers—the more marketable team—secure the division lead. They won't "fix" the game against the Panthers, but they won't intervene to save them from their own penalties. Final Verdict Betting on the Panthers requires you to hope for a miracle 4th-quarter collapse. Betting on the Buccaneers requires you to trust that a superior roster—aided by a favorable officiating crew—will control the game for the first 45 minutes. Take the Buccaneers Moneyline. The "Safe" money is on the Ref. The Prediction: Tampa Bay Buccaneers Win and Cover Projected Score: Buccaneers 27, Panthers 17 The Bet: Buccaneers -3 (or Moneyline -165) Confidence Level: High on the Winner; Moderate on the Spread (due to potential "garbage time" variance).
    • He isn't a good HC. I think he has proved that conclusively.
    • The missed tackle percentage is on that screen cap.
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