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No more Watson threads. Use this one or one of the other 20 existing ones.

rayzor

By rayzor,
in Carolina Panthers

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Jackie Lee Grand Master

Jackie Lee

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Shocker said:

You know what I like about this Watson thread?  It allows me to see all the trolls in a their natural habitat without going through 20 meaningless topics that just repeat themselves 

Haha great for the ignore button. A bunch of these new accounts will probably become inactive if the trade doesn't go through anyway

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TheSpecialJuan Grand Master

TheSpecialJuan

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ellis said:

I was thinking the same thing a couple of weeks ago, but started coming to the realization that this was a conversation that would probably be broached, at the very least, by Houston. 

Again, no confirmation from my end that both will be packaged in an offer together. 

 

Oh man, if New Orleans is in the lead in the final hours, it would feel like a Tep move to simply overextend and fork out more just to win the trade. 

What would be more upsetting

if we landed Watson by trading Burns and Chinn or if the Saints trade for Deshaun? 

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MVPccaffrey Collaborator

MVPccaffrey

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ellis said:

I was thinking the same thing a couple of weeks ago, but started coming to the realization that this was a conversation that would probably be broached, at the very least, by Houston. 

Again, no confirmation from my end that both will be packaged in an offer together. 

 

Oh man, if New Orleans is in the lead in the final hours, it would feel like a Tep move to simply overextend and fork out more just to win the trade. 

"Three 1st round picks not good enough?  Well what about FOUR 1st round picks."

 

"I'm a finance genius, trust me"

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grimesgoat Experienced

grimesgoat

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Toomers said:

  Rhule had total control in year one and last year. The cap guru was hired 2 weeks after Rhule was hired. Hurney’s last decision was Shaq’s contract before Rhule was hired. The cap guru was here for Teddy, CMC, Boston, Okung,KK, Weatherly, Roberts, and all of the first year mistakes. Plus Robby’s awful extension, Erving, Henderson hasn’t done a thing yet, Elflein, on top of the Darnold option.  Teams don’t get in the position this team is in because they make a lot of good decisions. Results just say the opposite of the sunny scenario you always present. And giving a backup TE 5.5M/yr doesn’t seem to say they learned anything. 

It's one thing to say Rhule has total control, but how his desires are carried out makes all the difference.  It's about creativity and getting the right price.  Hurney was terrible at this, but Fitterer has demonstrated some talent in this regard.

Recall, Fitterer came along in January 2021.  This was after Teddy, CMC's extension, the Boston signing, the Okung trade, the KK contract change, and the Weatherly signing.  I don't know who Roberts is.

We don't know about Robby yet.  He's still got two years left, although he is certainly off to a disappointing start.  I didn't like it, but he was coming off a 1,000 yard season, so i can see the logic.  They may have had some concerns about DJ costing too much going forward so they wanted to lock Anderson up and get Marshall in as well.  We'll see.

Erving and Elflein were decent signings.  I don't see those as much of an overpay.  You can't find vet FA guards for much less, and they are flexible.  Had Sewell dropped one more spot, the line would have looked much different.  I also think our OL coach and OC were terrible, which hurt the line play overall.  They needed to be replaced.  We'll see how they do this year with hopefully better coaching.

I liked the Thomas re-sign.  A guy with experience with his teammates and coaches that has shown some positive flashes in a non-TE focused offense.  Let's see what he can do when the TEs are actually used as receivers in a real NFL offense.  I think we'll find his contract is about where it should be. Not sure there were viable TE options available in FA this year.  Plus we don't burn a comp pick signing someone else that might be slightly better or burn our 4th rounder on a rookie that will not be able to contribute anything for a year or two.

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Jackie Lee Grand Master

Jackie Lee

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, TheSpecialJuan said:

What would be more upsetting

if we landed Watson by trading Burns and Chinn or if the Saints trade for Deshaun? 

In an ideal world, Watson basically did nothing too fuged up to these ladies, he gets to talk to Tepper and tells him if Rhule can't get his poo together he gets input on the next HC for 2023 and we can sign some decent FA's next year to take over the division. Worst case scenario Saints get Watson, we draft Kenny Pickett and we basically all stop watching Panthers games  for a few years. I think Tepper is losing patience and going ham behind the scenes

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PootieNunu Grand Master

PootieNunu

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

So we get one good year out of him before he bolts in FA.  Great!  Y'all make it look like dude actually wants to be here and will be a Panther for life.  Report after report shows we are WAY down his list.  You think three years in this carnival is going to change his mind and actually want to re-sign here when he can test the open FA market????  Homerism meets man-crush at it's finest.  His choices and market are limited right now.  In three more seasons that dynamic changes drastically especially after his legal troubles die down over time.

We could draft 3 qbs in successive years and they could all suck. 

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    • CPantherKing
      So, just what is it that makes a QB "elite"?

      By CPantherKing · Posted

      I've explained this in more detail before. Briefly, there's a process to quickly evaluate a QB. Also, there's a type of QB that excels at a higher rate than others at the pro level. After that, it's about keeping the QBs flowing through the system. 1st round QBs are not superior, they just get more reps and game time. You can find just as many competitive QBs that are 3rd day or undrafted if you give them the same reps and game time. Now, to dive deeper for fun. To understand this further, there are rare 1st round QB exceptions, but they must come with a pro pedigree and proven success in college. There's only 1 to 3 of these QBs every decade (John Elway 1983, Peyton Manning 1998, Eli Manning 2004, Andrew Luck 2012, Jared Goff 2016, Patrick Mahomes 2017, and Joe Burrow 2020. That's 1 of every 20 1st round QBs (5% of historical 1st round QBs in modern draft era). When you look at 1st rd QB success, eliminate these rare ones from your samples because they are trained to be championship QBs. 100% of them have taken their team to a championship. Also, the Bill Walsh tree knows the formula for building an offense and finding a QB QUICKLY. The question is why haven't others figured it out & continue to waste draft capital on QBs? Based on my QB evaluation system, here's the QBs I had slotted for the Panthers over the past 10 drafts. Patrick Mahomes, Brad Kaaya, Cooper Rush, Lamar Jackson, Brett Rypien, Tyler Huntley, Jalen Hurts, Shane Buechele, Desmond Ridder, Brock Purdy, Aqeel Glass, Jack Coan, Aidan O'Connell, Tanner McKee, Spencer Rattler, Devin Leary, Sam Hartman, Quinn Ewers. The ones in bold were the ones that rated the highest for pro championship qualities (probable franchise QBs). Obviously,  we didn't need them all, but it's about flow of pro championship qualities shown in college and not the most physically gifted. Also, there are a few QBs every decade who have the qualities, but never get a chance. If you're talent evaluation/QB system is good enough, you can go get 2 to 3 of them tomorrow to show what they can do when their name is called. I expect 1 of every 6 QBs to be worthy of being a franchise QB. There's strict rules to the depth chart qualifications, rotation, minimum KPIs and cuts/trades for me. Panthers have had Collins, Beuerlein, Weinke, Delhomme, Clausen, Newton, Bridgewater, Darnold, and Young. If you include Lewis, Peete, Allen and Mayfield, the Panthers have had 3 of 13 championship level franchise QBs. 1 of 5 (1 of 6 if you don't count Collins). It's the same for every franchise. The difference is a certain coaching tree knows how to move them through quicker than all the others while building defense with the most valuable draft picks. For Walsh, Montana(3rd rd) was his 3rd QB and Young(trade) was his 12th (9 yrs). He had a process allowing him to move through them rapidly. For Holmgren, Favre(trade) was his 4th QB and Hasselbeck(6th rd/trade) was his 15th QB (10 yrs). Neither of them settled on or tried to solve the problems of their 1st QB. For Andy Reid, McNabb(1st rd) was his 2nd QB and Mahomes(1st rd) was his 15th QB (19yrs). For John Harbaugh, Flacco(1st rd) was his 1st and Jackson(1st rd) was his 8th (11 yrs). For Sean McVay, Goff(1st rd) was his 1st and Stafford(trade) was his 5th (5yrs). Reid was the slow and stubborn one who wouldn't move on from his QB & had to wait nearly 2 decades to grab a QB that is the rare exception. I present this to show how 1st round picks are wasted on QBs, and it's the process fitting the QB to the system that generates success. Championship leader qualities and a process to move through QBs for a single coach's offense until you find a winner is the formula. The ages of these QBs from the Walsh tree when they won their first SB: Montana(25), Young(33), Favre(27), Mahomes(24), Flacco(27), and Stafford (33). 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