Stafford/Carr Comparison

[NanuqoftheNorth]

13 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I would like to know why I should invest all that money into Carr and not just pay Gardner Minshew less and roll with him. Why is Minshew's career passer rating actually higher than Carr's?

I would hope that the Panthers are exploring all their options at QB, including Minshew.  I also hope they'll consider more than a single stat before drawing any conclusions.

https://www.nfl.com/players/gardner-minshew/stats/career

https://www.nfl.com/players/derek-carr/stats/career

[bythenbrs]

1 hour ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Why not have both?

Remember, Bridgewater and Darnold were both receiving 20 mil/year. 

So, is 30-35 mil/year for a significant upgrade at QB too much to pay?  Keep in mind that the salary cap is increasing by 16 million for 2023.  Carr would be the best QB in the division and the Panthers would become the odds on favorite to win the NFC South.

None of this would prevent the Panthers from drafting their QB of the future this year or next.

Wouldn't it be enjoyable to watch the Panthers get back to playing competitive football in 2023? 

You mean, under the new administration, that we can walk and chew gum at the same time?  Who knew?

[TheCasillas]

2 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Why not have both?

Remember, Bridgewater and Darnold were both receiving 20 mil/year. 

So, is 30-35 mil/year for a significant upgrade at QB too much to pay?  Keep in mind that the salary cap is increasing by 16 million for 2023.  Carr would be the best QB in the division and the Panthers would become the odds on favorite to win the NFC South.

None of this would prevent the Panthers from drafting their QB of the future this year or next.

Wouldn't it be enjoyable to watch the Panthers get back to playing competitive football in 2023? 

That is a very manageable number. You'd think he is leaking that because he wants another team rather than the Jets or Saints.

35million this year is the equivalent to a 29million QB last year....

Edited February 24, 2023 by TheCasillas

[SmokinwithWilly]

9 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

 

All depends on how the contract is written and the length. I wouldn't want to do a 5 or 6 year contract. Shorter term, I could see doing. Anything more than 3 years, I'm not really interested in. 

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

I would hope that the Panthers are exploring all their options at QB, including Minshew.  I also hope they'll consider more than a single stat before drawing any conclusions.

https://www.nfl.com/players/gardner-minshew/stats/career

https://www.nfl.com/players/derek-carr/stats/career

I agree wholeheartedly. I'll add that you must consider the complete picture, including a cost-value analysis.

If our FO chooses Carr, I'll have to accept it, but the thing is is that I don't know if his expectations---functionally or contractually---is to be a bridge. So can we expect a team that signs him to sign him within that context? 

Minshew probably just wants another chance to be a starter and prove that he is legitimate, so he'll probably be more likely to come with that expectation, and his contract should likely reflect that.

I'd also add that even some of the more advanced analytics besides passer rating is likely in Minshew's favor as well. Of course Carr has way more production because he had the opportunity due to his numerical draft selection and corresponding expectations. It's just food for thought.

[mav1234]

4 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Why not have both?

Remember, Bridgewater and Darnold were both receiving 20 mil/year. 

So, is 30-35 mil/year for a significant upgrade at QB too much to pay?  Keep in mind that the salary cap is increasing by 16 million for 2023.  Carr would be the best QB in the division and the Panthers would become the odds on favorite to win the NFC South.

None of this would prevent the Panthers from drafting their QB of the future this year or next.

Wouldn't it be enjoyable to watch the Panthers get back to playing competitive football in 2023? 

35 mill is quite a bit more than 20 mill. That's a lot less roster flexibility... AND most people were very unhappy with Darnold's 20 mill.  Teddy's was fine and I'd be fine paying a bridge QB that or that range.

I don't think Carr comes here for 30 mill but maybe I'm wrong.  However, I don't think Carr wants to go some place that is being partially rebuilt to hold a seat for a rookie for a couple years.  If we get him, he's out long term starter, and he will expect us to build a team around him, not around a first round rookie.  We may draft a rookie QB at some point this draft and may even get a first rounder QB in his time here if we pick him up, but it just doesn't make sense to spend both 35 mill AND the 9th overall (or more) on your QB of the future.  And my preference is just through the draft right now.

[top dawg]

2 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Teddy B career is 90.5. Cam's is 85.2. Would you rather have Cam or T2G? 

Well rushing was a huge part of Cam's production, and Teddy, not so much.

Rushing is not a huge part of Carr's game or Minshew's game to date.Ind you that out of 142 games almost all of them started by Carr, he has 845 rushing yards. Out of 24 games started by Minshew (and 32 games played), he has 521 yards. Draw your own conclusion from there.

 

[GoobyPls]

Is this supposed to be an endorsement? I didn’t want Stafford either, congrats he won a SB in a stacked team with a great HC.

 

Carr isn’t Stafford btw. Stafford is more talented and has always had an aggressive mindset, Carr is captain checkdown with an OK arm, both are inconsistent game to game.

[Mr. Scot]

25 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

35 mill is quite a bit more than 20 mill. That's a lot less roster flexibility... 

Not when you account for the growth of the salary cap.

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

True.  As we've seen, some people are willfully ignorant when the truth undermines their preferred narrative. 

An example courtesy a guy who knows a thing or two...

People

People get enamored with watching guys throw it far or throw it hard, when neither of those things is what matters.

What matters is your ability to accurately throw it to a spot.

If you can't do that, The result is more likely an incompletion.

(but hey, at least it'll look really cool and make you go "wow")

Edited February 24, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[frankw]

I don't even like Stafford and I think any comparison between the two is laughable. Carr is more comparable to Cutler. You pro Carr guys are just high on hopium.

[frankw]

4 hours ago, Wundrbread33 said:

That’s the problem with calling every QB who changes teams a “retread” like they are all the same. 

By definition he's a retread. His team decided to move on just like the Jets and Browns decided to move on from Darnold and Mayfield whom we rolled the dice on. He would be retread #3 for us. Just because you don't like the term doesn't make it untrue.

[SmokinwithWilly]

44 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Well rushing was a huge part of Cam's production, and Teddy, not so much.

Rushing is not a huge part of Carr's game or Minshew's game to date.Ind you that out of 142 games almost all of them started by Carr, he has 845 rushing yards. Out of 24 games started by Minshew (and 32 games played), he has 521 yards. Draw your own conclusion from there.

 

Your argument was based on a single stat, QB rating. Obviously there was more to Cam's game than just passing, that's why using a single stat is so deceiving. We have to look at the big picture. And I was a big proponent of getting Minshew instead of Darnold. 

[Wundrbread33]

2 hours ago, frankw said:

By definition he's a retread. His team decided to move on just like the Jets and Browns decided to move on from Darnold and Mayfield whom we rolled the dice on. He would be retread #3 for us. Just because you don't like the term doesn't make it untrue.

What’s your definition of “retread”? Additionally, how is the term used in context on this board? (Was “retread” used by Ram fans when they were winning games with Stafford for example)
 

These must be defined in order for a “truth” statement to be arrived at. 

If we assumed “his team decided to move on” is your definition, then would you consider any free agent or trade acquisition as a “retread”? Even players who you personally like?

 

Or is it, as I assume, a term reserved to talk about players from other teams in a negative light.