Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

More NFL News


Mr. Scot
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, frankw said:

We can squabble over Kirk's numbers but can we agree linking him with Burrow to soften his playoff record is a stretch? Burrow has already led his franchise to a Super Bowl by age 25 and the Bengals have been one of the worst teams in the league for years.

Not only that, but Cousins has been in the league for over a decade and only has made the playoffs 3 times as a starter, despite being one of the more highly paid starters for several years over that stretch. He's had other meaningful regular season games where he's underperformed too (i.e. primetime games, games with playoff implications, etc). 

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

Not only that, but Cousins has been in the league for over a decade and only has made the playoffs 3 times as a starter, despite being one of the more highly paid starters for several years over that stretch. He's had other meaningful regular season games where he's underperformed too (i.e. primetime games, games with playoff implications, etc). 

None of that has anything to do with the point presented in the video though. The point is that Cousins is labeled as somebody that chokes in the playoffs but when lining his stats up alongside Joe Burrow (who is seen in the opposite light) they look incredibly similar with the biggest takeaway being how much better the Bengals defense has performed than the Vikings. Nobody is debating his pay. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone is claiming Cousins is as good as Burrow. Or maybe they are. I dunno. I don't think he is. But I wonder what the narrative would be if Cousins' defense had been as effective as Burrow's in the playoffs. Maybe Cousins still finds ways to lose, I dunno, but the video is certainly interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TheCasillas said:

That isnt the topic of the video. I know you just commented on it and did not watch it, so I will provide a summary for you.

The topic is around how these two guys get completely rated on the opposite sides of the spectrum yet have very similiar stats in playoffs, but their defenses are completely oppopsite of each other. They spoke to examples of which the defense bailed Joe Burrow out and he could easily be 1-5 as well with his playoff record. Example provided:


They said it's their fault that these two guys are graded the way they are because it's the media job to create contrast and conflict. They also did say that they both deserve scrutiiny because they are in the most scrutinized position on a football team and are paid handsomely.  However, they went on the defense of Cousins and said that he does get it more than other QBs and people to blindly look away from the Vikings defense. 

All this to say.... the perspective of Cousins is skewed and if you compared him statistically he is up there near QBs like Burrow for elite play. 

So the topic isnt Cousins being better or as good as Burrow, but rather he isn't the choke artist of the Vikings, the Vikings are the choke artists as whole. 

I'm not pro Cousins at all but even I wouldn't label him a choke artist. That's a strong term reserved for some true turds. He's been pretty productive in the regular season. I don't see the point in engaging in what if this happened or that happened scenarios. You can find games where his defense might not have had a good performance and you can find some where they made plays to help the team win but Kirk got the credit since he's the defacto leader. Even QB's who were great and changed the game can't run away from their losses. See our only MVP in franchise history and losing Super Bowl 50. From my POV it looks like some folks are just trying to stick up for Cousins bc they feel he is being unfairly slighted. But really he isn't and the criticism he has faced for his playoff record is no different than any other QB 🤷‍♂️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Icege said:

None of that has anything to do with the point presented in the video though. The point is that Cousins is labeled as somebody that chokes in the playoffs but when lining his stats up alongside Joe Burrow (who is seen in the opposite light) they look incredibly similar with the biggest takeaway being how much better the Bengals defense has performed than the Vikings. Nobody is debating his pay. 

And my point is that it’s not just playoff record that gives Cousins the choker label, it’s body of work. He came to a team that was in the NFC championship the previous year, whereas Joe Burrow came to a team with the worst record in the league that had not won a playoff game in 30 years. 
 

I would get the argument if you were comparing Cousins to Jimmy “just wins playoff games by handing off and not screwing things up” Garoppolo. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

And my point is that it’s not just playoff record that gives Cousins the choker label, it’s body of work. He came to a team that was in the NFC championship the previous year, whereas Joe Burrow came to a team with the worst record in the league that had not won a playoff game in 30 years. 
 

I would get the argument if you were comparing Cousins to Jimmy “just wins playoff games by handing off and not screwing things up” Garoppolo. 

I'm not aware of Cousins entire body of work (though I imagine I'm about to become more familiar with the research I'm about to do :P), but in regards to what you pointed out with the 2017 vs. 2018 Vikings there is a lot of context missing there. Such as:

  • Minnesota's OL in 2017 ranked #6. In 2018 they plummeted to #29 after losing guards Joe Berger (retirement) and Nick Easton (training camp neck injury).
  • The interior offensive line for Cousins' 2018 Vikings: Tom Compton, Pat Elflein, and Mike Remmers 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
  • The three aforementioned interior offensive linemen gave up a combined 18 sacks.
  • Compton (47th among guards) and Remmers (50th) together allowed 77 total pressures.
  • Rookie 2nd round selection Brian O'Neill started at RT and allowed 31 pressures (but did not allow a sack in 531 pass-pro situations).
  • The team's pass defense suffered greatly with the loss of 1st round selection Mike Hughes to a torn ACL in October which left an undrafted rookie Holton Hill to step up. Xavier Rhodes also happened to have the worst year of his career that same season allowing a catch rate of 65.2%.
  • Cousins worst stretch that season came after the Bye week where the Vikings would eventually go 3-4 over that period with losses to the Bears (twice), Seahawks, and Patriots.  The Pats were 8-3 at the time and would finish the season 11-5. The Bears went 12-4 and were only behind the Saints & Rams who had both gone 13-3. The Seahawks finished 10-6.  None of these were bad teams with bad defenses.

We all saw what a bad offensive line does to a QB just two seasons ago. Putting the 2018 Vikings record on Cousins simply does not match up with what actually happened.

Joe Burrow was also 2-6-1 with the Bengals before he broke his leg in week 11 of his rookie season. He did not take them to the playoffs. That was his sophomore season when the team went 10-7 after signing Riley Reiff (Cousins' one solid offensive lineman in Minnesota) and drafting Ja'Marr Chase.

Jimmy G could be funny to add to the mix now that you mention it... I wonder what the graphic would look like with him on there.

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unrelated to the Cousins/Burrow debate...

Consolidated list below:

$152M - CLE
$138M - KC
$136M - DET
$133M - LV
$131M - DEN
$129M - BAL
$122M - BUF, CIN, JAX
$121M - NYJ
$119M - ATL, NO
$117M - ARI
$116M - DAL
$115M - SF
$111M - NYG
$110M - MIA
$108M - LAC, HOU
$107M - TEN, CHI
$105M - PIT, WAS
$104M - MIN, IND
$101M - PHI, SEA
$100M - NE, LAR
$84M - TB, CAR
$83M - GB

  • Beer 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Icege said:

I'm not aware of Cousins entire body of work (though I imagine I'm about to become more familiar with the research I'm about to do :P), but in regards to what you pointed out with the 2017 vs. 2018 Vikings there is a lot of context missing there. Such as:

  • Minnesota's OL in 2017 ranked #6. In 2018 they plummeted to #29 after losing guards Joe Berger (retirement) and Nick Easton (training camp neck injury).
  • The interior offensive line for Cousins' 2018 Vikings: Tom Compton, Pat Elflein, and Mike Remmers 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
  • The three aforementioned interior offensive linemen gave up a combined 18 sacks.
  • Compton (47th among guards) and Remmers (50th) together allowed 77 total pressures.
  • Rookie 2nd round selection Brian O'Neill started at RT and allowed 31 pressures (but did not allow a sack in 531 pass-pro situations).
  • The team's pass defense suffered greatly with the loss of 1st round selection Mike Hughes to a torn ACL in October which left an undrafted rookie Holton Hill to step up. Xavier Rhodes also happened to have the worst year of his career that same season allowing a catch rate of 65.2%.
  • Cousins worst stretch that season came after the Bye week where the Vikings would eventually go 3-4 over that period with losses to the Bears (twice), Seahawks, and Patriots.  The Pats were 8-3 at the time and would finish the season 11-5. The Bears went 12-4 and were only behind the Saints & Rams who had both gone 13-3. The Seahawks finished 10-6.  None of these were bad teams with bad defenses.

We all saw what a bad offensive line does to a QB just two seasons ago. Putting the 2018 Vikings record on Cousins simply does not match up with what actually happened.

Joe Burrow was also 2-6-1 with the Bengals before he broke his leg in week 11 of his rookie season. He did not take them to the playoffs. That was his sophomore season when the team went 10-7 after signing Riley Reiff (Cousins' one solid offensive lineman in Minnesota) and drafting Ja'Marr Chase.

Jimmy G could be funny to add to the mix now that you mention it... I wonder what the graphic would look like with him on there.

I didn’t claim Burrow took his team to the playoffs his first year, I just said that he went to a team that was in far worse shape than Kirk’s was when he joined Minnesotas, as evidenced by them having the number one overall pick that year. Not sure how that’s debatable.

  The Vikings o line in 2017 was ranked 22nd in the league vs 27th in 2018, so it’s not like they were stellar for Keenum either. Burrows o line his rookie year was 30th and improved to 20th the year they went to the Super Bowl. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Barring an extreme shock, the Panthers won't be directly involved in the annual head coaching carousel this seasdon. Still, for those who like to keep up on this sort of thing for the future or just wanna get a line on who we could potentially lose, here's some info. Tom Pelissero does this every year for NFL.com, but the article I'm looking at today is from Sports Illustrated writer Conor Orr. The Top NFL Head Coaching Candidates Teams Will Consider for 2026 As with Pelissero's article (linked below) former Panthers OC Joe Brady is listed as a top candidate, as is another former Panthers OC (who had an arguably more contentious exit) Thomas Brown. He had issues here, but is doing much better these days working with Drake Maye up in Foxboro. Posted below are the Panthers relevant sections of the article. And lemme just add that while the first name mentioned here probably won't surprise you, the second one might. _______________________________ Ejiro Evero, defensive coordinator, Carolina Panthers Evero has been a bright spot on many underperforming teams, having unfortunately gotten his break as a play-calling coordinator with both the Broncos during the pre–Sean Payton era and the Panthers. Still, the reality of Carolina’s defensive turnaround has been stunning. Despite having one of the worst defenses in history last year, the Panthers did not spend a first-round pick on defense and Evero has led a unit that’s allowed 20 or fewer points four times and shut out the division-rival Falcons.  I am sure Evero will one day become a head coach, as evidenced by the fact that he’s continued to receive interviews even during the darkest seasons. Perhaps Carolina’s turnaround, which currently has the Panthers tied with the Buccaneers atop the NFC South. Brad Idzik, offensive coordinator, Carolina PanthersEmpty heading Idzik, 34, the son of longtime respected NFL personnel man John Idzik Jr., is an analytical mind valued by Dave Canales not only for his data-driven approach to the game but the way he can develop talent and place talent into advantageous positions. The potentially playoff-bound Panthers have completed a stunning turnaround while simultaneously grooming a young core of players, from first-round talents all the way to undrafted free agents. _______________________________ I'll also throw in a couple of additional indirectly Panthers related mentions: Drew Terrell, pass-game coordinator/wide receivers coach, Arizona CardinalsEmpty heading Terrell left the Commanders in 2022 for Arizona with a promotion that includes coordination responsibilities. The Stanford receiver and special teams ace has been in the NFL coaching ranks since 2018, climbing the ladder from quality control coach with the Panthers to pass-game coordinator with the Cardinals. Frank Smith, offensive coordinator, Miami DolphinsEmpty heading Smith has been a mainstay on our list for the past few seasons, with his former head coach at Butler, Jeff Voris, telling me for a previous list that, “Interviewing him was one of the most unique experiences I ever had. When [Frank and I started together], we hadn’t won a game in two years, an 18-game losing streak. He became my right-hand man, and in four years, we were 11–1, won a championship and he was the offensive coordinator doing the whole thing. I became his assistant coach at some point.” As the totality of Miami’s roster-building struggles comes into full view, seeing Smith and head coach Mike McDaniel build a successful offense without much in the way of resources continues to be a strong case in Smith’s favor. He last interviewed for a head coaching job with the Panthers in 2024, when they hired Dave Canales. _______________________________  I only vaguely remember Terrell. I do recall Smith being a guy some folks really wanted to get our head coaching job before they went with Canales. It might be a down year for the Dolphins, but Smith is apparently still getting attention. Lastly, as mentioned above, here's the Pelissero version for those who want to review what it says. 2026 NFL head coach hiring cycle: 24 young candidates to know
    • You aren't having a debate. You literally haven't said anything other than in "your eyes" he isn't better. Then some rando gave you your second data point. I mean....how about this, have you watched any of his games this year?
    • Rico and Chubba and the OL Canales not trying to force BY 
×
×
  • Create New...