How the Carolina Panthers found themselves in the worst situation

[hepcat]

On 6/12/2024 at 12:17 PM, Ricky Spanish said:

They are different Bad.

As bad as Bryce was, he didn't have a ton of boneheaded "What the fug were you thinking?" throws last year. He was limited physically, but generally didn't throw a ton of abysmally dumb balls.

Darnold would throw multiple turnover worthy plays every single game, like he had no idea what he was doing out there.

Neither were great, but the former gives me SOME hope that he can get better with a better supporting cast.

Darnold to his credit also made a handful of throws every game that made you go “why can’t you just do that all the time?”

[hepcat]

On 6/12/2024 at 9:52 AM, travisura said:

Darnold is never going to figure it out, and Wilks ceiling is .500 level coach with maybe a shot at a wild card one and done every year. Neither were the answer.

Didn't think there'd still be Darnold truthers in 2024 but here we are.

Wilks had the team playing harder and better than anyone else under Tepper’s ownership. Calling him a “.500 level coach” when he had 12 games inheriting a 1-4 team is very unfair. I won’t even go into his time in Arizona. Wilks was the type of coach that could build up the team again.

And retaining Darnold as a backup would have been a fine idea. Not sure he wanted that but he’s about as good a backup as you can get because he has enough talent to step in and win some games. He can also make throws that Bryce will never be able to make. His problem was bad decision making. Young is physically limited. Can’t fix one of those things. 

[Ricky Spanish]

2 hours ago, hepcat said:

Darnold to his credit also made a handful of throws every game that made you go “why can’t you just do that all the time?”

Dude throws Piss Missles but my god he makes bone headed decisions so often it's infuriating.

I'll never forget the first preseason game where he was about to be wrapped up in a sack and he panicked and tried to throw the ball but it ended up going backwards and fumbling. That's when I first thought "Maybe it wasn't all the Jets fault..."

[LinvilleGorge]

2 hours ago, hepcat said:

Darnold to his credit also made a handful of throws every game that made you go “why can’t you just do that all the time?”

That's how guys like him keep getting opportunities. They have all the talent. They make some plays that leave you clinging to hope that it'll eventually click. They're good guys and great in the locker room. At the end of the day he's never going to be a quality starting NFL QB but he's gonna put a LOT of money in the bank so good for him.

[mrcompletely11]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's how guys like him keep getting opportunities. They have all the talent. They make some plays that leave you clinging to hope that it'll eventually click. They're good guys and great in the locker room. At the end of the day he's never going to be a quality starting NFL QB but he's gonna put a LOT of money in the bank so good for him.

I will go to my grave thinking that some qbs simply need to sit for a spell and not start immediately and that having multiple head coaches and oc's in the first few years is a sure fire way to ruin a qb.  Having to learn new schemes, new terminology etc while having to learn to lead in the nfl is simply too much for the majority of qbs.  I know it sucks for the fans but look at KC situation.  That had a great vet mentor to mahoomes and simply let him learn with absolutely no pressure in his rookie year.  Not sure why more teams are not following that model.

[Ricky Spanish]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I will go to my grave thinking that some qbs simply need to sit for a spell and not start immediately and that having multiple head coaches and oc's in the first few years is a sure fire way to ruin a qb.  Having to learn new schemes, new terminology etc while having to learn to lead in the nfl is simply too much for the majority of qbs.  I know it sucks for the fans but look at KC situation.  That had a great vet mentor to mahoomes and simply let him learn with absolutely no pressure in his rookie year.  Not sure why more teams are not following that model.

I completely agree. Guys like David Carr and Darnold have all the potential in the world but really could have benefited from sitting for a few years.

[LinvilleGorge]

25 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I will go to my grave thinking that some qbs simply need to sit for a spell and not start immediately and that having multiple head coaches and oc's in the first few years is a sure fire way to ruin a qb.  Having to learn new schemes, new terminology etc while having to learn to lead in the nfl is simply too much for the majority of qbs.  I know it sucks for the fans but look at KC situation.  That had a great vet mentor to mahoomes and simply let him learn with absolutely no pressure in his rookie year.  Not sure why more teams are not following that model.

I just don't think some guys have it. Darnold has the panic gene. I don't think there's any fixing it. He looks really good as long as the play develops as drawn up or if he gets pressured immediately and has to go to his check down right away. It's when he has decent protection and his first read isn't open and he's standing back there in the pocket with that panic slowly building. That's when he does disastrous poo.

[TEClemson53]

This franchise screwed up when they tried to win AFTER cutting Cam. Once they made the decision to cut Cam, it should have been tank CITY for Trevor Lawrence. Yes, Matt Rhule and Fitterer were clowns. Tepper sucks etc etc but from a roster only standpoint, they have played QB roulette since cutting Cam. This has kept us at the bottom of the league. You draft TLaw, we still have DJ, hell quite possibly have CMC. It has been a giant snowball effect from the minute they cut Cam and signed Teddy thinking they could win.

[Waldo]

18 minutes ago, TEClemson53 said:

This franchise screwed up when they tried to win AFTER cutting Cam. Once they made the decision to cut Cam, it should have been tank CITY for Trevor Lawrence. Yes, Matt Rhule and Fitterer were clowns. Tepper sucks etc etc but from a roster only standpoint, they have played QB roulette since cutting Cam. This has kept us at the bottom of the league. You draft TLaw, we still have DJ, hell quite possibly have CMC. It has been a giant snowball effect from the minute they cut Cam and signed Teddy thinking they could win.

That was Hurney not Fritters and his one player away from winning strategy which was TB.

Edited June 14, 2024 by Waldo

[onmyown]

On 6/12/2024 at 9:24 AM, t96 said:

the NFL didn't even have to "force JR out." JR was probably the one who suggested the idea of him selling quickly and quietly to the league. dude only gave a poo about the league and not the team. don't get me wrong I'd gladly take him back over Tepper, but JR was pretty damn bad too. if JR had any interest in remaining owner he easily could've done so. But he knew it wouldn't be good for the league so he sold. Snyder had been fighting the rest of the owners for like a decade plus. JR would never put up any fight with the league even though he did significantly less bad things than Snyder.

Due to NDA’s we have no clue how bad it got with JR. But the fact people think it wasn’t bad just proves how NDAs work for rich people it’s disgusting. But hopefully logical people can assume that after millions of dollars in payoffs and several NDAs…it was actually a lot worse than what we will ever know.

Edited June 14, 2024 by onmyown

[t96]

3 minutes ago, onmyown said:

Due to NDA’s we have no clue how bad it got with JR. But the fact people think it wasn’t bad just proves how NDAs work for rich people it’s disgusting. But hopefully logical people can assume that after millions of dollars in payoffs and several NDAs…it was actually a lot worse than what we will ever know.

I'm sure whatever JR did do that we haven't heard about is not as bad as the majority of other owners like Jones, Kraft, Irsay, Snyder, etc.  I'm no JR defender, he sucked too. My point is just that he did not fight the accusations or league whatsoever and just bent over. All the other owners want to keep their teams as we saw from Snyder for so long and Kraft, Jones easily getting all their controversies swept under the rug. 

[WhoKnows]

21 hours ago, strato said:

Are you guys trying to say that the Cam ‘haters’  exactly mirror the Darnold ‘lovers”? Same people? 

I don’t think that is it at all. I think it is more likely to be different people, probably with some overlap.

This racism thing, when most of the team and league is Black and people are big fans of plenty of Black players, but have football issues with one or two and that makes them a racist? I don’t understand that at all.

 

I will tell you also, Sam Darnold at the price he would have cost, and all that cost invested in other areas plus we’d have DJ Moore, was a far better option than what they did. 

 

Personally, not sure why racism comes up either as if anyone who wants Darnold now would have wanted him over Cam before, because of race. It’s because Young sucked and as you said we’d have Darnold or heck Mayfield with Jalen Carter next to Brown plus DJ Moore and CMC (we traded his 2nd for Young as well). I’m not sure we would have had the top pick but we’d have drafted someone with our 2024 first like Alt or Bowers or Nabers as well. Yes, I’d rather have all that and Darnold than Young. Doesn’t make me racist and I wish Cam was still healthy too.

[SmokinwithWilly]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:13 AM, kungfoodude said:

I will never understand how we have a portion of our fanbase to hate Cam but also a portion that loves Sam Darnold.

There is no better logic test on the planet than that. If you fail it, football is not for you.

I know a lot of people who don't think Cam is the QB god he's made out to be. They don't hate him, but they also don't think he's a HoF qb. They were more tired of the fans falling all over him and ignoring some of his weaknesses because he could truck a LB without slowing down. 

Same people like Darnold because He's a likable enough guy and easy to root for.  They also realize he has talent, but is scatterbrained and gonna make a lot of money as a career backup. 

Cam has a very different personality and I think you either relate to it or you don't. The whole outfit thing caused a disconnect for a lot of people, coupled with a lack of winning, changed people's perspective about him. Doesn't mean they were right, I think it just caused a disconnect. 

[WhoKnows]

59 minutes ago, TEClemson53 said:

This franchise screwed up when they tried to win AFTER cutting Cam. Once they made the decision to cut Cam, it should have been tank CITY for Trevor Lawrence. Yes, Matt Rhule and Fitterer were clowns. Tepper sucks etc etc but from a roster only standpoint, they have played QB roulette since cutting Cam. This has kept us at the bottom of the league. You draft TLaw, we still have DJ, hell quite possibly have CMC. It has been a giant snowball effect from the minute they cut Cam and signed Teddy thinking they could win.

Dude, I was leading that tank train. Between that and trading Burns when the Rams offered 2 1sts and a 2nd, a not horrifically bad GM (Fitt) a could have turned us into a loaded team. We’d have been in the playoffs 2 years in a row.