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QB stock market - week 18

NAS

By NAS,
in Carolina Panthers

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
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12 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

Patriots are worse. Their high second round pick and fourth round picks combined have less yards than Coker who was a UDFA.

Not to mention, we have one of the better OLs and RBs (well when he's healthy) in the game.

I don't think our supporting cast is as bad as some make it out to be. Receiving in specific is weak, but for most of the year, so was the QB throwing them the ball...

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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23 hours ago, mav1234 said:

Not to mention, we have one of the better OLs and RBs (well when he's healthy) in the game.

I don't think our supporting cast is as bad as some make it out to be. Receiving in specific is weak, but for most of the year, so was the QB throwing them the ball...

Panthers have a much better oline, but the Patriots have better receivers. When the Panthers oline has a bad game, it's over. There isn't anyone on the team to save them. When the Patriots oline holds, there are plays to be made and guys to make them. Panthers receivers are happy just making the catch. They ain't trying to make a big play.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Panthers have a much better oline, but the Patriots have better receivers. When the Panthers oline has a bad game, it's over. There isn't anyone on the team to save them. When the Patriots oline holds, there are plays to be made and guys to make them. Panthers receivers are happy just making the catch. They ain't trying to make a big play.

The Patriots do not have better receivers... Hunter Henry is a decent player but Thielen is significantly better than anyone on that roster. Coker is probably their #1 haha. They even have their own version of XL's drops, but that guy is in his 2nd year which is arguably more concerning.

Also bullshit on not trying to make a big play. Thielen plays his heart out, makes one hand grabs left and right... Sanders had a crazy scary injury from going all out.. Coker is a promising UDFA that yes, has made some mistakes, but works really hard.

Edit: Coker is a half yard per game behind Hunter in production and Thielen is 20 yards ahead of him. Nobody on the Patriots is within ~10 yards of Hunter. Legette has more TDs than any receiving option they have... 

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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11 minutes ago, ncfan said:

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-week-18-2024-nfl-season
 

this one won’t go over well on here either

IMG_9517.jpeg

Hahaha man. There are a lot of backups below him on that list, but this comment about Drake Maye's loss of 3 places is hilarious:

"Maye led one quality scoring drive, which ended in a touchdown pass to Demario Douglas, but the Patriots can burn the rest of this tape -- and that's not Maye's fault."

I'm glad we finally have a QB the media is fawning over haha

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Navy_football Grand Master

Navy_football

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2 hours ago, mav1234 said:

The Patriots do not have better receivers... Hunter Henry is a decent player but Thielen is significantly better than anyone on that roster. Coker is probably their #1 haha. They even have their own version of XL's drops, but that guy is in his 2nd year which is arguably more concerning.

Also bullshit on not trying to make a big play. Thielen plays his heart out, makes one hand grabs left and right... Sanders had a crazy scary injury from going all out.. Coker is a promising UDFA that yes, has made some mistakes, but works really hard.

Edit: Coker is a half yard per game behind Hunter in production and Thielen is 20 yards ahead of him. Nobody on the Patriots is within ~10 yards of Hunter. Legette has more TDs than any receiving option they have... 

Agree the Panthers receivers are generally better at being possession receivers, sans the XL drops. But Patriots receivers are absolutely better at YAC. Douglas, Boutte, Hunter and Bourne have all been better at making defenders miss in the open field than anyone on this team. Our receivers absolutely suck at that. So I guess it's just preference.

And it really doesn't matter what you're trying to do, or how hard you're trying to make a guy miss. Stop falling down or running out of bounds after the catch and make a friggin play! Thielen is great as a possession guy. I admit that. He's arguably one of the best in that role right now. And agree Coker and Sanders give more YAC effort, but they don't get enough opportunities for it to really matter on Sundays. Panthers need more explosive plays period. Unfortunately Canales and Young can't trust anyone but a slow possession receiver to provide them. That's not good. 

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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34 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Agree the Panthers receivers are generally better at being possession receivers, sans the XL drops. But Patriots receivers are absolutely better at YAC. Douglas, Boutte, Hunter and Bourne have all been better at making defenders miss in the open field than anyone on this team. Our receivers absolutely suck at that. So I guess it's just preference.

And it really doesn't matter what you're trying to do, or how hard you're trying to make a guy miss. Stop falling down or running out of bounds after the catch and make a friggin play! Thielen is great as a possession guy. I admit that. He's arguably one of the best in that role right now. And agree Coker and Sanders give more YAC effort, but they don't get enough opportunities for it to really matter on Sundays. Panthers need more explosive plays period. Unfortunately Canales and Young can't trust anyone but a slow possession receiver to provide them. That's not good. 

I don't think this is fair to Coker or Sanders re: not being trusted. And YAC is not just about the receivers, but scheme and QB play. Young's balls are slow to arrive which makes YAC difficult on longer passes unless coverage is broken, as safeties/DBs in zone can close quickly. And our depth of target is much deeper than the Patriots by scheme. Their top WR yardage wise's average depth of target is 5.8 yards; Thielen's is 11.3... Coker and Legette are both 12+. The Patriots main receiver with a depth of target behind 10 yards has basically as many YAC as Legette and a similarish YAC/R (2.1 vs 3.3). Their other guy, a rotational player, has a YAC/R of 1.1; so deeper throws, less YAC.

Our screen game blows, which limits YAC opportunities there, and is more about imo coaching and play calling as our line is talented and our receivers are decent blockers. 

Despite this, Sanders, Coker have more YAC/R than any of the main TEs/WRs on the Patriots. We have to find ways to get them involved. 

Long story short: imo a lot of the YAC stuff is not on the WRs, but we have some talent there and need to get those guys more involved.

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Davidson Deac II Grand Master

Davidson Deac II

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On 1/2/2025 at 11:28 AM, mav1234 said:

Not to mention, we have one of the better OLs and RBs (well when he's healthy) in the game.

I don't think our supporting cast is as bad as some make it out to be. Receiving in specific is weak, but for most of the year, so was the QB throwing them the ball...

I agree.  I think on the offensive side, if Young continues to improve, we are really only 1 or 2 players away from being very good.

On the defensive side, we need to totally revamp the front 7.  

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    • CRA
      Post- Training Camp 53-Man Roster Projection

      By CRA · Posted

      This is about getting open and YAC....and the QB we have.  You basically are just highlighting average depth when targeted vs 2 players. .  And yeah, I often say AT is a small slow reliable TE in terms of what he does for us.   That's what he is.   I think a couple of you want to make this into a Renfrow argument.   I'm a Renfrow fan.  Renfrow does not check the box of what a BY O needs either at the slot.  Renfrow just a niche roleplayer at this level.  it's easy to look up how horrific AT is with the ball in his hands and in terms of getting open.....and it's also easy to look up what a low ceiling of an offense the steady AT diet produces w/ BY. 
    • PNW_PantherMan
      Panthers' content round up

      By PNW_PantherMan · Posted

      The one time he's actively tried to lose was the best we've ever done.
    • CRA
      Post- Training Camp 53-Man Roster Projection

      By CRA · Posted

      I simply acknowledge BY is the QB.  And just like we did when we drafted him.....the type O you would need to setup around him for success was always pretty simple.  But we have done virtually the opposite.  XL dropping some passes isn't why we were ranked the 32nd O and 30th passing the past 2 years.  *Ricky Prohel was brought up only in regards to role function he served on the team.  Niche/specialist.   He wasn't eating up the snaps in the O.    AT should have a similar snap %. People could MAUL Ricky Prohel and put hands all over him.   We got to the Super Bowl in part because we were mauling guys (our slot CB).   You can't do that now.  AT has a MUCH easier life and still can't get open.  Or run.    If you live in 3 WR sets, with a weak armed QB, and you choose to put someone who can't get open or run in the slot.......well, your are going to have a weak pass O.  That's by design IMO.  
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