All-Time Panthers Rushing - Hubbard should leap CMC & Foster this year

[TD alt]

7 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I realize that it's shocking to Panthers fans that players can improve because we've so rarely seen it but let's just celebrate that it happened.

Oh, you're not wrong, but both can be true: Chuba Hubbard did in fact improve, but he was always better than many---if not most---Huddlers gave him credit for. 

Most players worth their weight in gold are going to improve, but my thing is that sometimes fans need to chill and be patient. 

[tukafan21]

9 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I am not surprised. I remember looking at all-time franchise rushing in the past couple of seasons and being pretty amazed at how paltry the totals really were.

For CMC, I think people just forget how injury prone he became, hence why his numbers seem low. From 2020 to 2022 he played 16 of a possible 39 games. In fact during that timespan he never again went over 500 rushing yards in a season for us.

The the leaders on that list were far bigger impact players due to their longevity.

They're not really all that low as you think.

Sure, some teams have had those HOF RBs who played their whole career there so they have 10k+ team leaders, but there are a bunch of franchises lower than us and some long time ones not much further ahead.

Deangelo would be a leader for the Falcons, Saints, Bucs (crazy, our whole division), Eagles, Dolphins, Patriots, and Texans

[Waldo]

CmC had a ton of reciveing yards so it wasn't just injuries thst lowered his rushing yards. Looking at just rushing yards for CMC is like just looking at passing yards for Cam or Lamar. It's a fluff way of building up the year and isn't necessarily with Hubbard. He is a good RB and all we have to do is hope for good health. 

[Khyber53]

18 hours ago, frankw said:

Kind of bizarre Hubbard is already on the cusp of surpassing McCaffrey considering how comically overused he was at times here.

As much as I'd like to see Hubbard get over 4k this season the priority should be offensive versatility. We have a nice RB room and it's a long season. Spread the ball around.

McCaffrey was also such a huge part of the passing game here (and in SF) that it's easy to think he'd have a lot more rushing yards, just because of the impact he had on games (and sometimes he was it, all of it, the only guy doing anything it seemed).

But good for Chuba! Here's to seeing him climb the list, at least past Cam. No slight on Cam and his historic career here, but if your franchise's third leading rusher of all time was a QB, you've had some issues.

 

[t96]

I still think Hubbard is about as average of a starter as it gets at RB, which isn't necessarily a bad thing especially for his draft position, but he's not a guy that teams will ever gameplan for. Every other player on that list was at least at times. I don't like investing a ton in the position but I would still try to keep upgrading. Maybe not next offseason as we already have Chuba locked up and will hopefully get to see what if anything Brooks can offer, but the year after that I'd start looking again for a potential game changer at RB. Not expecting to find one immediately but take some shots on day 3 or in FA.

 

 

As for our career rushing leaders, yeah it's really not great overall even with the franchise being "only" 30 years old. Stewart and Williams both dealt with injuries AND having to deal with each other (and eventually Cam) taking carries for several years, otherwise could've seen either of them surpassing 10k. McCaffrey wasn't here all that long, was hurt a lot, and his receiving usage took away from rushing yards. Cam's numbers are pretty damn high for a QB whose career was ended pretty early due to injuries.

[Seltzer]

25 minutes ago, t96 said:

I still think Hubbard is about as average of a starter as it gets at RB, which isn't necessarily a bad thing especially for his draft position, but he's not a guy that teams will ever gameplan for. Every other player on that list was at least at times. I don't like investing a ton in the position but I would still try to keep upgrading. Maybe not next offseason as we already have Chuba locked up and will hopefully get to see what if anything Brooks can offer, but the year after that I'd start looking again for a potential game changer at RB. Not expecting to find one immediately but take some shots on day 3 or in FA.

 

 

As for our career rushing leaders, yeah it's really not great overall even with the franchise being "only" 30 years old. Stewart and Williams both dealt with injuries AND having to deal with each other (and eventually Cam) taking carries for several years, otherwise could've seen either of them surpassing 10k. McCaffrey wasn't here all that long, was hurt a lot, and his receiving usage took away from rushing yards. Cam's numbers are pretty damn high for a QB whose career was ended pretty early due to injuries.

Every advanced metric has Chuba in the top 10 range last year. I think you're selling him short here. He's not one of the very best backs in the league, but he's earned a spot in that next tier IMO.

I definitely think Chuba has proven to be an above average starter. Go look at broken tackles and yards carried over expected. Hubbard would get a lot more buzz if the team were more relevant.

Watching Chuba break through 2 tacklers to high step into a game winning TD in OT against the Cardinals was one of the coolest images we've had on offense (besides the Bryce to Tremble pass) in quite a few years.

Chuba is almost certainly the best 4th round pick in franchise history.

I dont think Chuba has that final gear that CMC or Deangelo Williams had in their prime, but outside of that Chuba is solid as can be. 

Chuba still has good speed though. That TD run against the Bears where he blew past their entire secondary showed that.

I think watching CMCs preparation showed Chuba as a rookie how much work it took, and to his credit, Chuba has always been one of the last guys off the practice field.

Given all the almost comical dysfunction of the Panthers since Tepper bought the team, Chuba really is one of the few true organic successes this team has had.

A 4th rounder who has turned into a borderline top 10 RB. I think Chuba deserves all his flowers.

And pairing Chuba with Rico Dowdle will low-key give us one of the best 1-2 punches in the league.

Both these guys had 1300+ combined yards last season. That doesnt happen without a lot of talent.

And while they dont have the same 1st round pedigrees that J-Stew & D-lo had, Chuba & Rico could be the best duo since Double Trouble 

Hopefully they perform well enough we give them a nickname

 

[shaqattaq]

20 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

I am not surprised. I remember looking at all-time franchise rushing in the past couple of seasons and being pretty amazed at how paltry the totals really were.

For CMC, I think people just forget how injury prone he became, hence why his numbers seem low. From 2020 to 2022 he played 16 of a possible 39 games. In fact during that timespan he never again went over 500 rushing yards in a season for us.

The the leaders on that list were far bigger impact players due to their longevity.

CMC also had 3,292 receiving yards and 18 receiving TD's for us (per ESPN). I didn't see his YAC, but there were a poo ton of them which is also part of why his totals seemed light to me.

[OneBadCat]

46 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

Every advanced metric has Chuba in the top 10 range last year. I think you're selling him short here. He's not one of the very best backs in the league, but he's earned a spot in that next tier IMO.

I definitely think Chuba has proven to be an above average starter. Go look at broken tackles and yards carried over expected. Hubbard would get a lot more buzz if the team were more relevant.

Watching Chuba break through 2 tacklers to high step into a game winning TD in OT against the Cardinals was one of the coolest images we've had on offense (besides the Bryce to Tremble pass) in quite a few years.

Chuba is almost certainly the best 4th round pick in franchise history.

I dont think Chuba has that final gear that CMC or Deangelo Williams had in their prime, but outside of that Chuba is solid as can be. 

Chuba still has good speed though. That TD run against the Bears where he blew past their entire secondary showed that.

I think watching CMCs preparation showed Chuba as a rookie how much work it took, and to his credit, Chuba has always been one of the last guys off the practice field.

Given all the almost comical dysfunction of the Panthers since Tepper bought the team, Chuba really is one of the few true organic successes this team has had.

A 4th rounder who has turned into a borderline top 10 RB. I think Chuba deserves all his flowers.

And pairing Chuba with Rico Dowdle will low-key give us one of the best 1-2 punches in the league.

Both these guys had 1300+ combined yards last season. That doesnt happen without a lot of talent.

And while they dont have the same 1st round pedigrees that J-Stew & D-lo had, Chuba & Rico could be the best duo since Double Trouble 

Hopefully they perform well enough we give them a nickname

 

Yeah I think that sums it up. Chuba doesn’t have the raw athleticism that Williams, Stew, and CMC had. But what he does have over them is consistency and he protects the ball well. I think he also has elite level vision and knows how to get the most out of his talent. Hes a slightly more dynamic Nick Goings. 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, shaqattaq said:

CMC also had 3,292 receiving yards and 18 receiving TD's for us (per ESPN). I didn't see his YAC, but there were a poo ton of them which is also part of why his totals seemed light to me.

Well, this was a thread about rushing yardage.....

[shaqattaq]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well, this was a thread about rushing yardage.....

Exactly... But his numbers seemed low to me initially. Then I remembered that half of his production were receptions.

[Seltzer]

1 hour ago, shaqattaq said:

CMC also had 3,292 receiving yards and 18 receiving TD's for us (per ESPN). I didn't see his YAC, but there were a poo ton of them which is also part of why his totals seemed light to me.

Great point. Not including CMCs numbers as receiver is like when people didn't include Cam's rushing totals when talking about his QB play.

It understates just how big on an impact they had on the game.

CMC really might have been both our best rushing & receiving threat from 2019-2021.

That 3 year stretch really was incredible.

That kind of usage is catching up to him though IMO given all the injuries. 

I read an Niners article earlier talking about CMC looking like hes lost a step since his Achilles injury.

Granted, he'll probably have an incredible game against us on MNF, but football is just inherently too violent to escape unscathed after the kind of usage CMC has had.

One great thing about Dowdle is that hes a proven RB who still doesn't have a lot of mileage

[Seltzer]

1 hour ago, OneBadCat said:

Yeah I think that sums it up. Chuba doesn’t have the raw athleticism that Williams, Stew, and CMC had. But what he does have over them is consistency and he protects the ball well. I think he also has elite level vision and knows how to get the most out of his talent. Hes a slightly more dynamic Nick Goings. 

I'm excited to have other guys in here old enough to remember Nick Goings. 

Goings almost pushed us back into playoff contention in late 2004 after Davis & Foster went down, and in addition to being a solid ST player, also had some great rushing performances when he was needed.

[Bear Hands]

6 hours ago, Seltzer said:

Every advanced metric has Chuba in the top 10 range last year. I think you're selling him short here. He's not one of the very best backs in the league, but he's earned a spot in that next tier IMO.

I definitely think Chuba has proven to be an above average starter. Go look at broken tackles and yards carried over expected. Hubbard would get a lot more buzz if the team were more relevant.

Watching Chuba break through 2 tacklers to high step into a game winning TD in OT against the Cardinals was one of the coolest images we've had on offense (besides the Bryce to Tremble pass) in quite a few years.

Chuba is almost certainly the best 4th round pick in franchise history.

I dont think Chuba has that final gear that CMC or Deangelo Williams had in their prime, but outside of that Chuba is solid as can be. 

Chuba still has good speed though. That TD run against the Bears where he blew past their entire secondary showed that.

I think watching CMCs preparation showed Chuba as a rookie how much work it took, and to his credit, Chuba has always been one of the last guys off the practice field.

Given all the almost comical dysfunction of the Panthers since Tepper bought the team, Chuba really is one of the few true organic successes this team has had.

A 4th rounder who has turned into a borderline top 10 RB. I think Chuba deserves all his flowers.

And pairing Chuba with Rico Dowdle will low-key give us one of the best 1-2 punches in the league.

Both these guys had 1300+ combined yards last season. That doesnt happen without a lot of talent.

And while they dont have the same 1st round pedigrees that J-Stew & D-lo had, Chuba & Rico could be the best duo since Double Trouble 

Hopefully they perform well enough we give them a nickname

 

Once you get past the top tier (Henry, Barkley, Gibbs, Taylor, Bijan) and get to Kyren/Mixon/A Jones types, that's the tier Chubba could cement his spot in.  Level (not style) wise, I can see him producing more long term than a James Conner, Tony Pollard, etc. 

I think we're staring at two roads.   

One is the archetype of someone who was good/deent, popped one year and slowly declined vs. getting to that 3+ year feature back role for a team. 

[Davidson Deac II]

Hubbard might see reduced carries this year since we picked up the Cowboys free agent.