Ryan Kalil's cap figure next year is 11+m

[jdpanther5]

I'm sure we'll restructure it, saving about $4.4m in the interim to reduce his base to $1m all the while kicking that amount further down the road.

[Carolina Cajun]

I don't care what his cap hit is, he's the only legitimate lineman on the team, you can't cut him. I think kalil would be decent if he wasn't flanked by 4 udfa turds, he's obviously over compensating and playing poorly because of it

[rmoneyg35]

He doesn't have ANY help.

Kalil has thrown quite a lot of bad snaps this season, can't blame that on his surroundings.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

He was outplayed by Trai Turner earlier in the year. Looked below average at best (not Amini and Bell bad but still not very good). He turned it around and started to play decent for a couple games and now he's back to playing poorly. Just got outplayed by rookie UDFA Norwell.

 

Can't blame this all on the other players. He's definitely not living up to his contract, though there's not much we can do about it with so much dead/guaranteed money in his deal. He really needs to take a paycut moving forward but the Panthers have very little leverage to get him to agree to that.

[Paa Langfart]

he doesnt help ANYONE either. he is often left there standing blocking nobody.

 

 

Why the fug would a defensive lineman with a brain try to get through or by an all pro when he can step to either side of him and go through  any one of four guys who are trash ?

[MHS831]

he has been as disappointing as all the other linemen including Bell and Chandler. only slightly better than Amini

 

Nobody is talking about it, but you are exactly right. 

 

You know, our OL has to be leading the league in pancake blocks this season.  I think 4 got pancaked Mon nite.

 

[unicar15]

Center has become almost as important as LT. Kalil isn't going anywhere and I wouldn't be surprised if we don't even ask him to take a cut. It'd be nice if it happened or if we decided to extend him but he's a Panther until the end.

OL is a unit so saying that Kalil is a problem area doesn't take into consideration that he is having to attempt to make up for the other crap players we have..and do more than probably a lot of other C in the league.

LT, RT, RG all need to be addressed (again) in the offseason but not C.

As far as other big cap hits I think Johnson is gone after this year. There are some really capable DE in free agency that could better for a fraction. Also think this is the year he doesn't count as a ridiculous amount of dead money.

People who are on the "fire DG" train need to realize that this year and possibly even next year are a product of Marty Hurney. Last year was almost like an abomination BECAUSE Gettlemen did such a good job finding cheap talent. IMO it was the exception and not the rule for this three year span until we fix the cap.

Is it frustrating? Of course...but this is what you get when you get an owner who doesn't know jack about what goes on in his org for a long period of time. My hunch is that bc JR was sick he just lost touch completely. When he finally realized that Hurney had crapped the bed...it was too late. He had kept him two years too long and was making a bunch of mediocre players very rich in the meantime.

[Peppers90 NC]

Nobody is talking about it, but you are exactly right. 

 

You know, our OL has to be leading the league in pancake blocks this season.  I think 4 got pancaked Mon nite.

 

if you want to use salaries as a comparison versus performance, i wouldnt argue if someone has said he has been the most disappointing. nah, Amini leads that by a long shot, but almost.

[AU-panther]

We also can't save money by releasing him, because his dead money hit would 12m.

lolololol

 

Actually we could designate him a June 1st cut and save a considerable amount of cap space.

 

As it stands now his cap hit for 2015 is 11.8m and cap hit for 2016 is 10.3m. 

 

As a June 1st cut his cap hits would become 6.2m for 2015 and 5.9m for 2016.

 

That would be a savings of 5.6m in 2015 and 4.4m in 2016.

 

To make matters worse his contract actually has 2 voidable years build into it, 2017 and 2018.

In theory if he plays out the next 2 years he can void his contract in 2017 (which he would) and we would still have a cap hit of 3.6m in 2017 for him not to play for us.

 

Everyone is quick to try and get rid of Stew and DWill but in reality Kalil, Olsen, and TD offer the most cap relief outside of CJ.

 

For instance a June 1st cut of TD would free up 7.5m in cap space next year.  Stew and Dwill will only provide around 2m.

 

Of our running backs Tolbert actually offers the most in cap savings next year.

 

 

 

 

Not worried.

CJ and Kalil will be taking pay cuts.

 

The majority of times you hear about a player taking a pay cut they are in fact restructuring and not losing any money. 

 

I would like to think most people around here would understand how this works but I have my doubts.

 

Here is an example:

Player A has a very basic 3yr/30m dollar contract with no guaranteed money.

 

                                      Salary                   Bonus                Cap Hit                 Dead Money

2015                           $10,000,000                                    $10,000,000

2016                           $10,000,000                                    $10,000,000

2017                           $10,000,000                                    $10,000,000

 

Lets imagine Player A's team has done a really poor job of managing their cap and is desperate for cap space.  Sound familiar?  So they decide to restructure his contract.  They would then convert part of a yearly salary into a bonus.  Because of the way the cap works in the NFL the team is allowed to spread the accounting of the bonus over the the life of the contract up to 5 years.   In this example we will convert $9,000,000 of player A's 2015 salary into a signing bonus.

 

                                    Salary                    Bonus                 Cap Hit                 Dead Money

2015                            $1,000,000         $3,000,000           $4,000,000             $9,000,000

2016                          $10,000,000         $3,000,000          $13,000,000            $6,000,000

2017                          $10,000,000         $3,000,000          $13,000,000            $3,000,000

 

This is the point where fans and media like to report that a player helped the team out by restructuring.  Yes the player lowered their salary from $10,000,000 to $1,000,000 but they actually received a $9,000,000 bonus.  Players love bonuses.  They are guaranteed and if I'm not mistaken they are all paid upfront where as salary is paid weekly during the season.

 

As you can see the player didn't lose anything, they actually benefitted.  The team benefits because they lowered that players cap hit for 2015 from 10 million to 4 million.  Now the team has an extra 6 million to spend on a player.  Or in some cases the team does this just so they can get below the league salary cap.

 

While this helps the team for 2015 and it hurts the team in the future for 2 reasons.  Player A's cap hit in 2016 and 2017 go up.  Also if the team decides to cut the player that dead money is counted towards the cap.  for example if this player is released in 2016 the team will still have $6,000,000 on the books as a cap hit.  The majority of the larger contracts on our team have been restructured like this, some of them multiple times.

 

The next step in poor team management is the use of voidable years,  Which we have a fair amount of.  A voidable year is basically a dummy year that allows the team to spread a bonus over a longer time period.  The player can and is pretty much expected by both parties to void the contract that year.  Usually the salary is listed as $1,000,000 and is only there as a placeholder.  In this example we will add 2 voidable years in 2018 and 2019.  The new table would look like this.

 

                                      Salary                 Bonus                  Cap Hit                       Dead Money

2015                             $1,000,000         $1,800,000              $2,800,000               $9,000,000

2016                           $10,000,000         $1,800,000            $11,800,000               $7,200,000

2017                           $10,000,000         $1,800,000            $11,800,000               $5,400,000

2018                             $1,000,000         $1,800,000              $2,800,000                $3,600,000

2019                             $1,000,000         $1,800,000              $2,800,000                $1,800,000

 

As you can see the players cap hit for 2015,16, and 17 is lower now, but the player can void the contract in 2018 and there will still be dead money on the books.  In this example the team would take a cap hit of $3,600,000 in 2018 and the player could be playing for another team.

 

I know some people refuse to use the cap as an excuse but if you would take time to actually look at our roster and see our contracts it becomes very clear that DG walked into a royal mess.  Unfortunately it will be 2017 before we really get out of it.  I fully expect us to have close to $20 million in dead money next year and we will probably have a considerable amount in 2016.

 

[Jeremy Igo]

There is a misconception on this forum that we are somehow cheap when it comes to players. We spend as much as most teams do. The problem is where we spend it.

Instead of having a LT making 10m we have a center with a 11m cap hit next year.

Instead of having a receiver making 8m we have 2 running backs counting for almost 15m next year.

Instead of having a cornerback making 9m we have a olb with a cap hit of 10m next year.

Instead of a safety making 7m we have a DE with a cap hit of 20m next year.

Because of the salary cap there are just so many "big" contracts you can have on a team. I think we have 7 players with cap hits over 4 million. This is pretty consistent with the other teams in the league.

In theory every team should be getting good production out of their big salary guys. All of those players are on 2nd or 3rd contracts. You should know what you are getting with them. Conversely you shouldn't expect much out of cheap free agents. There is a reason they are cheap.

Everyone likes to get mad at players like Bell but in reality a high dollar player that isn't producing hurts your team way more then a cheap player who isn't.

Players on rookie contracts are the one spot teams have the abilty to get to get high production for cheap prices. A quality draft class would go a long ways in helping us transition away from some of the bad contracts on this team.

Solid post

[panthers55]

So our perennial all pro is making what the average center makes within a mil or two.

 

Wow.  Big news worthy of a thread of its' own.

[dunnlx]

There is a misconception on this forum that we are somehow cheap when it comes to players. We spend as much as most teams do. The problem is where we spend it.

Instead of having a LT making 10m we have a center with a 11m cap hit next year.

Instead of having a receiver making 8m we have 2 running backs counting for almost 15m next year.

Instead of having a cornerback making 9m we have a olb with a cap hit of 10m next year.

Instead of a safety making 7m we have a DE with a cap hit of 20m next year.

Because of the salary cap there are just so many "big" contracts you can have on a team. I think we have 7 players with cap hits over 4 million. This is pretty consistent with the other teams in the league.

In theory every team should be getting good production out of their big salary guys. All of those players are on 2nd or 3rd contracts. You should know what you are getting with them. Conversely you shouldn't expect much out of cheap free agents. There is a reason they are cheap.

Everyone likes to get mad at players like Bell but in reality a high dollar player that isn't producing hurts your team way more then a cheap player who isn't.

Players on rookie contracts are the one spot teams have the abilty to get to get high production for cheap prices. A quality draft class would go a long ways in helping us transition away from some of the bad contracts on this team.

That's the problem!

[AU-panther]

So our perennial all pro is making what the average center makes within a mil or two.

 

Wow.  Big news worthy of a thread of its' own.

 

Kalil - 2015 cap hit - 11.8 million

 

10th highest cap hit for a center - 4.8m

 

11.8m-4.8m= 7m

 

7 million is considerable more then a "mil or two"

 

Also I would guess the 10th highest center makes more then the "average center" so in reality the difference would be even more.

http://overthecap.com/position/center/2015/

[rodeo]

Probably one of the few Panthers we could actually trade at that figure. Should consider it.