Hybrid defensive fronts.

[panther4life]

Excuse if I’m behind the times here as I have scaled back a bit on my panthers obsession for the past few months. 

With that out the way, I see multiple threads of this 3-4 talk and potentially making it a full time switch. A quick google search led me to an article where Rivera addressed it on the radio and here’s specifically what he said on the matter.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/Article/Ron-Rivera-Panthers-defense-3-4-comments-128574561/Amp/

“I think the biggest thing people have to understand is a lot of this conversation came about is because of the things that we were doing during the season," said Rivera. "There's several games, if you go back and look at specific points in that game when we went to a 30 front, you'll see those elements of the 3-4. And you'll see the success we started to have with it. Some of the things that we started designing and looking at, and have gone back and looked at, we had a lot of success with. And so it's something that we need to think about because of that.

 

Rivera stated that in the present-day NFL, many teams run two different styles of offense: A pro style offense (A more traditional, complex style), and then a zone read offense (An option offense that relies largely on timing and deception). This in turn gives opposing defenses much to prepare for. But if the defense does not do the same, it puts them at a great disadvantage.

"If you're a defense and if all you do is one thing, and every time they line up and they know exactly where you're gonna be, they know exactly how you're gonna line up - Preparation's easy," said Rivera. "Now all of a sudden, you start throwing elements in of a 30 front, you start throwing elements in of the Bear front and in your base front, now they've got to prepare for more than one thing. So looking at what can help us, what's been successful in the past, I think we've got to sit there and incorporate those into who we're gonna become as a defense.

"You've got to be multi-front. You've got to be multi-faceted in terms of how you want to cover, and then how you want to attack in terms of being aggressive with blitzes, line stunts, and different types of pressures ... I don't want to say I've looked at every play from last year, but I've looked at a good number of the plays. In particular, certain games where I do recall going and using the 30 front and saying 'You know what, look at what it's done to their blocking scheme. Look at how they've had to adjust. We can attack certain ways.'"

 

Rivera stated he has looked at what several teams have been able to do using a 30 front, including the Houston Texans, Los Angeles Rams, and Chicago Bears. Ultimately, he believes that the Panthers' personnel fits such a scheme nicely given the similarities between a 40 front (Which the Panthers have already played in successfully) and a 30 front.”

 

“If you have guys that you can keep on the field, and one minute you’re in a 40 front, the next minute you’re in a 30 front, the next minute you’re in a bear package – But never have to substitute guys – Now think about what you can do and how it puts some difficulty into offenses adjusting to you.”

So basing off his words, I don’t understand or see where the talk of us making a full time switch has come from. Looks like he wants to incorporate both looks, while at times not having to sub in new personnel. 

If that’s the case I can easily see Poe sliding into the nose in the 3-4 looks, shifting Short to the end position and dropping back one of the other ends to linebacker, presumably Irvin if he’s on the field. This would then move one linebacker inside with Kuechly except for the times where we keep someone at nickel as well. 

Also, I’m sure it happened as he mentioned it but I can’t specifically recall the personnel we used in our 3-4 looks last year. Does anyone remember who lined up where in those instances last season?

[ColumbusCounty]

Sooooo we're looking for personnel that can stay on the field running a 4-3, 3-4 + elements of a 4-6 thrown in?? 

[therealmjl]

In theory, sounds great. 

[Sub Zero]

I'm glad he is trying to be more like Belichick and play situational football...

I also think the only reason this is happening is because he has let go of all offensive responsibilities to Norv.. So he can concentrate solely on the defense.. I don't think he makes this move if Chudd or Shula is the Offensive coordinator..

[Captain Morgan]

we went 15-1.  Saints and Falcons built to be able to beat us.  and they have.  

We need to change, and as much as I hate change, I support this move.  I know nothing about the 3-4, but the more I read about it, the more I think we can pull it off.

I think this has been in Ron's mind for a while.  Explains the mystifying pick of Marquise last year.

[Sub Zero]

35 minutes ago, Captain Morgan said:

we went 15-1.  Saints and Falcons built to be able to beat us.  and they have.  

We need to change, and as much as I hate change, I support this move.  I know nothing about the 3-4, but the more I read about it, the more I think we can pull it off.

I think this has been in Ron's mind for a while.  Explains the mystifying pick of Marquise last year.

If they based a defensive change on a 4th round pick I'll be shocked.. Hayes was just a undersize pass rusher that they think can develop into a mario addison.. Ron just thought of this change at the end of last season...

[Lumps]

What frightens me is Poe at NT.

[Peppers90 NC]

51 minutes ago, Lumps said:

What frightens me is Poe at NT.

Why? That’s where he had been most successful 

[musicman]

I like where we are headed and I think our defense will thrive under RR.

[Moo Daeng]

He might not the be best but no reason to be frightened. 

[pantherj]

This is a team that can't manage timeouts, but we're going to play a hybrid defense without substituting much? Alright whatever just fix Cam's shoulder.

[JARROD]

16 hours ago, black-panthers said:

How? He made a living career there. 

I know right. Poe gets beat up but you have to put players in their best chance to succeed scheme be damned ala BillB and Wade,.. Poe was not put where he plays best and it showed.

 

[Lumps]

17 hours ago, black-panthers said:

How? He made a living career there. 

Based on how he played last year.

Yes, he wasn’t used as a NT but he was bad. Really bad. Seems to me a good player will at least be decent even if it’s not his ‘pure’ position.

It’s not like we all of a sudden moved him to offensive tackle like we have DTs in the past. (Lol)

NTs have to command a double team. It’s really the only way a 3-4 works well. 

[Black&BlueBubba]

On 3/22/2019 at 12:25 PM, panther4life said:

“If you have guys that you can keep on the field, and one minute you’re in a 40 front, the next minute you’re in a 30 front, the next minute you’re in a bear package – But never have to substitute guys – Now think about what you can do and how it puts some difficulty into offenses adjusting to you.”

I was gonna do this on a new post but this is a perfect place to go through this exercise.  I have really started to enjoy the X’s and O’s Part of the game over the past couple years. I’m an old college baseball guy and never had the chance to get into the schematics side of football.

This talk of going to a 3-4 has sent me scouring for information.  And what had has me puzzled was the above statement from RR.   Is it just coach speak? Or was theee something to it? What kind of personnel do we need for this?

We are gonna need some versitile players to actually implement this.  We will need 4-3 DT to be 3-4 DE’s.  Or 4-3 DE’s that could be 3-4 OLB’s.  The Bear package he is talking about I placing a NT over the center and using 2 other DT’s covering the guards.  It’s very difficult to run up the middle but susceptible to outside tackle runs.  

I will save what I think about the personnel we currently have for another thread.  But are we practicing what we preach in scouting for this upcoming draft?  Here some of the guys we met with.

Here  are a couple things I have dug up.  

Kyle Phillips- DE/DT Tennessee 

KP: I’m a high energetic guy. My motor is always running hot. I’m very athletic and I’m strong on contact. I play the game with a lot of physicality. I can play multiple positions. I can move inside to the 3-technique and rush the passer from there. I can rush from the 5-tehcnique or the 9-technique as well. I think my versatility is probably my biggest asset at the next level.

Derick Roberson-DE Sam Houston State 

Roberson doesn’t have the size to play defensive tackle at the next level, but he lined up at all four spots along the line in this game and showed off his ability at each. His burst off the line is really impressive and he maintains an athletic pass rush position. Early in the first quarter, lined up as a tackle, he won on a swim move through the C gap. A little later in the quarter, he won a stunt inside and almost got to the quarterback. The next play, he won through the C gap again using Aaron Donald‘s arm over move.

Dremont Jones DT Ohio state  

He has versatility to be moved around   And since the combine and because he came in light for a DT there is talk a loud possibly moving him to DE in certain situations.  But he should be a good 3-4 DE with some flexibility

 

Jordan Brailford DE  Oklahoma State 

He used the 6-foot-3, 250-pound Brailford as a traditional defensive end, as a stand-up edge rusher, as a middle linebacker, and on a few occasions, in pass coverage.

In his NFL pursuits, Brailford will be tagged with that increasingly more common term, “edge,” the category for players who could be an end on a four-man line, or an outside linebacker in a 3-4 system.

And then there are Montez Sweat, Ben Banogu who are both pretty versitile in what they can do.

For Clenin Ferrell?  I’m not sure how he fits into this mold.

But from first glance it looks as though we a walking the talk by looking for really versitile guys on the edge.