Kyle Allen - Trade

[4Corners]

23 minutes ago, WarHeel said:

You obviously know nothing about hockey.

I mean...I don’t want to brag. Hocky is nothing more than figure skating with brooms 

[Waldo]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

How long does Cam stay good?

And unless you can de-age him or get him to accept a ridiculous pay cut, those things are gonna be factors as well.

Same could be said of Allen. It's not like there is a great amount of play to base his future off of and he isn't going to be dirt cheap forever. Until something is taken off the table, ie Cam being done or Allen costing us multiple games, it's still unknown and widely speculated as fact. The hypothetical of Allen's value is no more or less ridiculous then saying Allen is a franchise QB right now. It's just too early for more than just speculation.

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Igo said:

You can't trade a promising young QB in this league, especially when your starter hasn't been able to stay on the field. You just can't.

The trade, I am afraid, is based on Grier's development. If Grier improves, you could tag Cam for a season and let Grier start year 3---but I would not look for that angle.  (I am not sold on Cam's long-term health or growth and I do not think you pay a question mark $145m).

The trade--if we make one-- is Cam, not Allen.  Money, health, and age.  They all work against Cam and favor the young guns.  If we can get a pick or two, make some substantial cap room, etc. We could strengthen the OL, add a S, and re-sign some key free agents.

Super Bowl

[onmyown]

I think what people miss in the whole ‘Cam coming back to 100% notion” is that it will take a full+ season to know if he is truly 100% not just a few games. Panther have to know if his shoulder, which has yet to be tested for a full season, can last the entire season and then some as well as throw downfield. Along with if he can be as effective as he has been without running it so much. Or take the beatings of an entire season if he does.

Whatever the case, we don’t know any of that yet and won’t until he plays a full season. 
 

I wouldn’t pay Cam or get rid of Kyle until the END of NEXT season when all will be known.

 

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Same could be said of Allen. It's not like there is a great amount of play to base his future off of and he isn't going to be dirt cheap forever. Until something is taken off the table, ie Cam being done or Allen costing us multiple games, it's still unknown and widely speculated as fact. The hypothetical of Allen's value is no more or less ridiculous then saying Allen is a franchise QB right now. It's just too early for more than just speculation.

You are correct.  Here is your point extended:  Cam is above Allen now, at age 30, if healthy.  We have probably seen his ceiling.  A running QB who can't run as well....Allen could be on a temporary tear and will be figured out soon by defensive coordinators.  But we do not know that and we do not know his upside.  He is not a franchise qb NOW, but how many 23-year old QBs are?  were?   He is a developing player, Cam is a waning player--even if he stays healthy. 

Age, money, injuries----they are all working against Cam.  During his rookie year, I posted that the way he plays, we can expect about a decade from him.  I still think that. 

I see your position--whatever happens will be a calculated risk. 

[MHS831]

5 minutes ago, onmyown said:

I think what people miss in the whole ‘Cam coming back to 100% notion” is that it will take a full+ season to know if he is truly 100% not just a few games. Panther have to know if his shoulder, which has yet to be tested for a full season, can last the entire season and then some as well as throw downfield. We don’t know any of that yet and won’t until he plays a full season.

 

He was so durable for so long----hard to think of him as an oft-injured player--which leads me to think he is near the wall. 

[Bartin]

1 hour ago, joemac said:

You're crazy.  The Jags just traded a CORNERBACK for 2 first rounders and a 4th rounder, and you're trying to tell me the most any QB needy team would give up for Cam Newton is a 1st and a 2nd?  No way.  2 firsts is the absolute floor I would see for a healthy Cam in any trade scenario.

You’re missing the point that if Cam comes back and plays really well then we will not trade him. If he comes back and sucks or gets hurt again and we decide to trade him then his trade value will be lower than two 1sts.

There really is no scenario where we get two 1sts for Cam because we won’t trade the version of Cam that’s worth at least two 1sts.

[mc52beast]

Hurney has a lot of work to do this off-season. and Cam’s hit against the cap next year is around 20 mil. Even if he does play well this year how do you know he will put a whole season together next year?

No way I’m trading Allen after seeing that he can win/not lose games for us.

[1of10Charnatives]

3 hours ago, CanadianCat said:

Would there be any value in shopping Grier than? 

Doubtful.

Think of NFL players like cars and the draft is the moment you buy one. As soon as you drive it off the lot it’s worth less. If you look at the vast majority of trades that involve players traded for picks, the pick the team receives for the player is almost always lower than the one used to select him.

The rare case where the player is worth more is when they have proven to have unique skill sets or abilities that make them unusually valuable and clearly worth more than the pick used to take them and are still physically in their prime.

The only time such a player is even available for trade is usually when they are a headcase or the relationship with the FO or coaching staff has deteriorated massively.

None of these things apply to Grier. He is a rookie mid round pick with no pro resume. At most I’d guess they might could obtain a 5th rounder for him.

[bandu]

uhhhhmmmmm no well come to think of it how about hell no

[Waldo]

32 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

You are correct.  Here is your point extended:  Cam is above Allen now, at age 30, if healthy.  We have probably seen his ceiling.  A running QB who can't run as well....Allen could be on a temporary tear and will be figured out soon by defensive coordinators.  But we do not know that and we do not know his upside.  He is not a franchise qb NOW, but how many 23-year old QBs are?  were?   He is a developing player, Cam is a waning player--even if he stays healthy. 

Age, money, injuries----they are all working against Cam.  During his rookie year, I posted that the way he plays, we can expect about a decade from him.  I still think that. 

I see your position--whatever happens will be a calculated risk. 

We have a lot to see from either before pulling any triggers on a trade. One could be traded, we could keep both through next year or one could drop out of the running of good ideas before then.

[Davidson Deac II]

Unless someone makes a ridiculous offer, we should and will keep Allen. 

[WarHeel]

1 hour ago, 4Corners said:

I mean...I don’t want to brag. Hocky is nothing more than figure skating with brooms 

The average NFL player is a diva compared to the average NHL guy. I encourage you to attend a game and see for yourself. It’s a rough sport.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

You are correct.  Here is your point extended:  Cam is above Allen now, at age 30, if healthy.  We have probably seen his ceiling.  A running QB who can't run as well....Allen could be on a temporary tear and will be figured out soon by defensive coordinators.  But we do not know that and we do not know his upside.  He is not a franchise qb NOW, but how many 23-year old QBs are?  were?   He is a developing player, Cam is a waning player--even if he stays healthy. 

Age, money, injuries----they are all working against Cam.  During his rookie year, I posted that the way he plays, we can expect about a decade from him.  I still think that. 

I see your position--whatever happens will be a calculated risk. 

Pretty much.

I'm not really expecting anybody to be traded, but if someone is, it's way more likely to be Newton (and probably for less than people want).