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Another opinion on our draft from Dator


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2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

That had the makings of a hurney move all over it.  

It had media speculation written all over it too. It was a goldmine of easy content.

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19 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Rhule stated in one of his press conferences that they consider that 2nd round recouped already.

Yeah, they got that value and more thru four trade downs. People can say what they want about who was drafted, but the value aspect is undeniable.

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44 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The thing is, they clearly value QB by being involved with Stafford and Watson. I have to think they just had a very narrow grade on QB's in the draft.

I completely agree.  What this draft showed me is the Panthers organization has added a dimension to their thinking we have not seen before. 

Most fans, and our organization historically, have seen the draft choice as two-dimensional.  The first is whether somebody should be on the chart, the second is their ranking/priority against everybody else on the chart.  We have added the dimension of their value relative to where we are picking.

So, as our picks approached, they looked at who was next our chart and what he was worth.  If he was not worth the pick we were going to use, we were not going to fire away (or worse, trade up to get him before someone else swoops in, as somebody infamous in these parts would have done).  We will (and did) trade down to either have our pick mesh with our valuation of the prospect, or trade down further, potentially miss out on our next guy, and pick up the chart after him somewhere.

That's how you enter a draft with 7 picks, wind up with 11 players out of it, and don't have people wondering what you were thinking by drafting a prospect well ahead of where they seemed to be worth.

The Dolphins played this game before the draft, assessing their board and trying to figure out how to get positioned get one of their top two or three at a suitable value and pocket a bounty of other picks.  On the opposite side, think of the Raiders picking Leatherwood at #17.  I liked Leatherwood a lot coming into this draft.....in the second round.  Not so much at #17.

The Pats liked Jones enough to pick him at #15.  Would they have taken him at #7, if that was the pick they had, or would they have pulled a Miami and traded down a few slots to get him at a more palatable price and pocket something else in the process?

I don't know that the Panthers didn't have Slater or Fields on the draft board, but if they did, they didn't have them valued as highly as I did.  That's fine since they are paying the tab, so to speak, and have forgotten more about this stuff than I will ever know.

Then add to the fact that a lot of people looked at the "Big Four" and maybe Jones as one pool.  I've said this on other threads, but it is very likely that almost nobody was interested in all four/five of them.  Most probably were interested in two or three, the only difference being who the two or three of the four or five were. 

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28 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

I completely agree.  What this draft showed me is the Panthers organization has added a dimension to their thinking we have not seen before. 

Most fans, and our organization historically, have seen the draft choice as two-dimensional.  The first is whether somebody should be on the chart, the second is their ranking/priority against everybody else on the chart.  We have added the dimension of their value relative to where we are picking.

So, as our picks approached, they looked at who was next our chart and what he was worth.  If he was not worth the pick we were going to use, we were not going to fire away (or worse, trade up to get him before someone else swoops in, as somebody infamous in these parts would have done).  We will (and did) trade down to either have our pick mesh with our valuation of the prospect, or trade down further, potentially miss out on our next guy, and pick up the chart after him somewhere.

That's how you enter a draft with 7 picks, wind up with 11 players out of it, and don't have people wondering what you were thinking by drafting a prospect well ahead of where they seemed to be worth.

The Dolphins played this game before the draft, assessing their board and trying to figure out how to get positioned get one of their top two or three at a suitable value and pocket a bounty of other picks.  On the opposite side, think of the Raiders picking Leatherwood at #17.  I liked Leatherwood a lot coming into this draft.....in the second round.  Not so much at #17.

The Pats liked Jones enough to pick him at #15.  Would they have taken him at #7, if that was the pick they had, or would they have pulled a Miami and traded down a few slots to get him at a more palatable price and pocket something else in the process?

I don't know that the Panthers didn't have Slater or Fields on the draft board, but if they did, they didn't have them valued as highly as I did.  That's fine since they are paying the tab, so to speak, and have forgotten more about this stuff than I will ever know.

Then add to the fact that a lot of people looked at the "Big Four" and maybe Jones as one pool.  I've said this on other threads, but it is very likely that almost nobody was interested in all four/five of them.  Most probably were interested in two or three, the only difference being who the two or three of the four or five were. 

Well, we had some pretty massive fails as far as "draft value" over the course of the draft, as well.

I don't think anyone can say with certainty what our plan is that isn't in the organization.

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Posted (edited)

If the staff can develop even half of these picks into suitable starter level players, it's a huge ass win. They're betting on themselves, and based on HOW they picked, I'm inclined to sip a lil' of that blue koolaid for now. 

Edited by Mistuh Jones
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4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Well, we had some pretty massive fails as far as "draft value" over the course of the draft, as well.

I don't think anyone can say with certainty what our plan is that isn't in the organization.

Whom are you referring to? Fletcher? 

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11 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

The thing is, they clearly value QB by being involved with Stafford and Watson. I have to think they just had a very narrow grade on QB's in the draft.

I really think they did past the top 2. Either way if Darnald busts we will still have a very young team and I'm pretty sure even if he does work out we probably will take QB next year at some point.

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2 minutes ago, Snake said:

I really think they did past the top 2. Either way if Darnald busts we will still have a very young team and I'm pretty sure even if he does work out we probably will take QB next year at some point.

If Darnold busts, it'll be a high draft pick for QB, unless they are able to get a vet. If Darnold works out, I expect them to get a mid round rookie as a developmental guy and backup. I had thought they would have took a rookie this year in the mid rounds, but the draft didn't go that way.

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On 5/3/2021 at 7:43 PM, TheSpecialJuan said:

They are judging us for what we didn’t do (draft Fields) than for what we did do which was draft 11 players who all have a strong chance to make the team 

How many of the 11 do you believe will stick and actually play a game?

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1 minute ago, SizzleBuzz said:

How many of the 11 do you believe will stick and actually play a game?

Horn, Marshall, Tremble, Brown, and Christensen might all be starting by year end with Nixon possibly developing into a solid rotational player. I’d look out for Shi Smith on special teams and some gadget plays. Of course our LS should get playing time...

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22 hours ago, pantherj said:

The Panthers passing on Fields tells me that Fitterer is staking his reputation and possibly his job on Darnold being the real deal.

Fitterer has seen something in the tape on Darnold to make him think he's our franchise QB. He's seen something other GMs didn't, and we have the entire 2021 season riding on Fitterer's QB evaluating skills.

Fitterer has made Darnold plan A, and there is no plan B. Here we go.

Fitterer did not make that decision in a vacuum. 

That decision was made collaboratively and unanimously by the hydra known as Tepper-Rhule-Fitterer.

You are correct that there is no Plan B!!

 

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2 hours ago, Snake said:

I really think they did past the top 2. Either way if Darnald busts we will still have a very young team and I'm pretty sure even if he does work out we probably will take QB next year at some point.

I suspect if/when Darnold fails it will matter how our overall record is. If he fails but we are around .500, perhaps we still don't reach and build the rest of the roster. If he fails spectacularly, I think you might see a little desperation creep into getting a QB in the draft or in free agency.

They seem a lot more comfortable dumpster diving in free agency or through trades than taking guys in the draft.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/3/2021 at 7:36 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

Honestly, not excited about the Horn pick but overall it looks pretty damn good. Like last year, so much hinges on an uninspiring move at QB working out.

I don’t understand why people are down on this pick? Consensus was that Horn and Surtain were head and shoulders better than every other DB in the draft. Our corners SUCK. We just filled a need with the best position player in the class who’s getting compared to Jalen Ramsay. I think he is going to take our D from good to elite. Then...if Darnold sucks and we need to draft a QB you’re drafting a QB into a situation where there is an elite defense behind him and a bunch of talent on offense. Basically a perfect situation. Build the team then get the QB...or maybe we have him already?

Edited by unicar15
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